Curating Reality with Raul

 Raul and I talk about healing from the past, giving yourself distance from the trauma of your life to curate and create your life and vibe. 

Summary/Time Stamps: 

• Welcome to this week’s episode. 0:08
• Mental health and depression. 9:49
• What did you lean into to heal yourself after losing the baby? 17:37
• “I feel like I needed to know what pain felt like physical and emotional pain felt like.”. 23:39
• How do I take care of myself? 29:27
• If you’re putting out good things, you’ll get put back. 36:12
• What can you do on someone’s body in 15 minutes? 41:03
• “It’s your party if you’re not having fun no one does”. 46:29
• Some of the happiest people in the world don’t know how they got out of bed. 52:28
• It’s all a choice if you want it to be shittier. 56:39
• If something isn’t working in your life, change it. 1:01:16
• The trade-off between intimacy and compromise. 1:06:44
• People and relationships fascinate me. 1:12:33
• Having a partner that does not take constructive information. 1:16:56
• How the emotional experience manifests as physical pain. 1:22:05
• “With gratitude I love and pay attention to and thank every inch millimeter of cell cell wall.”. 1:27:22

Transcript

Siobhan: 0:08

levels I mean, you're a professional artist.

Raul: 0:14

Oh, did you? I haven't.

Siobhan: 0:15

I haven't tried them yet. But I will. I actually have not been back in this room since you gave them to me. Oh, no kidding. Okay. Yeah, cuz we went out that day and then that's last day recorded. Yeah, yeah. No, I've been working everyday since.

Raul: 0:31

Oh, I like your curtains.

Siobhan: 0:32

Thank you. Yeah, thanks. All right, little sound good. So welcome to this week's episode of ducking reality. We are already going we are we're recording mics are hot.

Raul: 0:44

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Siobhan: 0:47

Welcome. This week we have Raul Raul is a master of many things. Music, massage bodywork. friendships, relationships, oil, sweet Dancing, dancing relationships. Maybe not an expert there? Well, maybe.

Raul: 1:04

I mean, I wouldn't say an expert. But I've certainly had my share of relationships. And for some reason or other they don't. I think that things have a cycle. I do know. And I think that it's important to experience different people, different situations. And I think that it's interesting when people try really hard to make something work that isn't working. Oh, yeah.

Siobhan: 1:36

Yeah, that for a long time. Did you? Yeah. Yeah.

Raul: 1:39

I've been married twice. The first one. I mean, I'm, I guess I'm just gonna get right into this shit here. All right. Yeah, I was 24 years old. My family had moved to San Diego. I opted not to go with them based on the family dynamic that I'll go into more deeply. So I was drinking a lot and partying a lot and hanging out at this cafe in Fullerton, the winged heart cafe. And oh, the girl behind the counter. There's this little Spitfire. And so I started hanging out there. And she asked, pretty much like, what are you doing this weekend? Not much. She's like, you want to get married? 100 from zero to 100. So, yeah, I kind of went along that path. And and so here's where the stuff starts to come in is after two years of being together. We got pregnant. Wow. Yeah.

Siobhan: 2:53

So you got married and worked together successfully for two years

Raul: 2:57

or two years? Yeah. And we're six months into the pregnancy. She she started having Braxton Hicks contractions. So we delivered at six months and her lungs just weren't fully developed, the baby's lungs weren't fully developed. I understand the technology now is really different. So the success rate of that is much higher, but we named her Karina Nicole, and she was with us for a few hours. She was so tiny, so tiny. And we went to adult store and bought dolls clothes to give her a proper burial. And yeah. So that's something that people don't realize I'll share her that, you know. But yeah, so after that experience, she, my ex wife fell back into meth, which is something that she had had trouble with before. And so I played along for a while I was trying to be supportive, and you know, very soon realized the impact that that drug has on you. And she like started losing tea that her joints were failing her. Were you using with her? We just Oh yeah. No, I was using with her. You know, as a complete aside here, it was the most creative period of my life because you're totally spot and I was writing music and drawing and but when she was working at a waterbed store, Miss Mr. waterbed. And the woman the wife of the husband on the waterbed store was the one providing and they were just giving it freely, you know? So, she's high at work. She would, you know, I would come home, I was working two jobs at the time I'd come home and she's passed out, you know, and not that it's her responsibility. But if I'm you know, providing the food and the place, trying to clean up a little bit, try to do your share and be a good partner be a good partner. So ultimately, in the third year, I said, Look, sweetheart, we need to sit down and have a talk. This is, these are all of the reasons why this isn't working. I've tried persuading you to let that go. But ultimately, the meth became much more important to her than I was. That was her go to. So I had to step away from that. And I've learned from a mutual friend that she's clean now she has a son. Yeah. But yeah, for me, Karina Nicole would be 23 right now. Which I can't imagine what my life would be like. So after that divorce, I called a friend who had just moved to San Francisco, by way of Costa Mesa in Southern California, he helped to open the Nike challenge store there. And then they flew him to Seattle to open that in the demo San Francisco. So he was only here for about three months, when I reached out and said, hey, you know, things are kind of having a hard time I need a little break. He's like, Sure, come on up. And he was living in Bernal Heights at the time. So the next morning, actually, that night, December 11 1997. I heard that a friend of mine from Southern California, his band was playing at Cafe du Nord, and kind of a rockabilly band. Right. And that was that was my scene at the time. So I went to Detroit and met so many great people from the Bay Area. And some of with whom I'm still really good friends. But yeah, the next morning, I woke up and from Bernal Heights, I walked all the way to Fisherman's Wharf, which is a big track. And along the way, I stopped by Lori's diner, there's a little 50s Diner. And there was a sign in the window. Help Wanted. So like you would see the movie. I grabbed the sign and I walked upstairs. And they're like, When can you start us tomorrow. So that next morning, I got my pompadour all nice and piled high and went to work and immediately just clicked, you know, they have the jukebox that was playing all these old 50s heads and I would get the people that were there having dinner and dance with them in the aisles and stuff. So it was a really good experience. So then, from that first marriage to my second one was 10 years in between. And I met this wonderful woman. I was DJing at a club in San Francisco, and she just beeline straight to me and she put her finger on my nose. She says You are cute. And I was like, okay, so we hung out for a while and decided to start getting a little bit more serious. But what I what I've neglected to mention is that both of these women in my life were polyamorous. So that was a really big factor in developing who I am now. In fact, the second one, invited that we were invited to a wedding of one of our very good friends down in San Luis Obispo. And after the ceremony and dinner, the couple invited many of their friends back to their hotel room to celebrate, quote, unquote, to celebrate their wedding, which was really fun. I'm getting a little basketball now because I'm just like, yeah.

Siobhan: 8:53

That's interesting. Yeah,

Raul: 8:54

that's interesting. Interesting way

Siobhan: 8:55

to celebrate your marriage.

Raul: 8:57

Yeah, yeah, it was really nice. But, you know, the second one that did was very powerful woman in education and very, was she was with continuation high schools at the time. So very stern. And then that would come home and sort of condescend. I, I grew up with that and didn't need that. So, you know, we had a very amicable divorce. How long have you guys married three years? Oh, yeah, same time. So she and I had two dogs together that have since passed, but she and her new sweetheart have two dogs so I have a key to her house and I can go visit the dogs whenever I want. So it's really nice to still have that is my life. Right? You still

Siobhan: 9:49

have zero still very good friends. Yeah. Yeah, that's nice.

Raul: 9:53

Yeah. You know, in thinking about what I wanted to talk about today, with you is something that doesn't really get talked about too much. And that is mental health. And I recognize of myself that because of my upbringing, I struggle a lot with depression, a lot with depression. And each day, many times a day is a struggle, you know, I was on meds for a while, back when, during my first marriage, and it really felt like the roulette wheel of antidepressants. They were like, you know, oh, that didn't work. Let's try this. That didn't work. And then that just made me even more messed up.

Siobhan: 10:44

Yeah, it's really depressing. And it's hard when it's depressing when you're depressed. But it's hard when you are trying to get the right meds because it's like, so hopeful, and then a letdown, hopeful, and they'll let down. And it's so regular for the doctor to kind of go through it that sometimes they forget that it's not regular as a patient to go through it. And then you're taking that shit that's making you go up, and then down and up and down, you're going on and off of it. It's like you can't even get a baseline going, because depending on where you are in that cycle of meds, yeah. And it can cause even more depression and anxiety and hopelessness, which is the worst part of the Depression. That's more than nothing less, sometimes, I think, the nothingness. I don't know if it's for you. But like, when my depression is kind of hitting, or it's no more active. I'd rather feel just sad. And then nothing. Like I don't have a desire to eat or sleep or watch anything or anything. Yeah. And it's like that feeling of nothing is always makes me think of the Neverending Story. Like when the nothing is coming. It's like, sometimes I can feel it creeping in. And I'm like, No, I don't want to be like that. Very accurate. And then it's like, Finally, like, the light kind of clears a little bit, and I feel better. But during that time, like I did the Med, how long did you stick with trying the meds when you first did it?

Raul: 12:09

I would say about three years. And this was right during the time of the divorce, and the first divorce, and the meth, which probably didn't help matters any, because you're altering your body's chemistry. So when I, when I moved to the Bay Area, I was here maybe a month and a half and had a suicide attempt. I was just so fucked up, you know. But I've done a lot of work on my own to try and rebuild myself. And in fact, I have re, I've started over many times, there is a lot of truth to that expression that you only live once, right. And so if something isn't going the way that I'd like it to, I just trash it all and start over. You know, and that has really led me into some great experiences. So the person that you've that, you know, in me, is of my own creation. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. And it takes a lot of work, to, to shake free old ideas or beliefs that aren't serving you. And trying something new, you know. So, yeah, that that whole thing with, with medications, I finally decided, once again, to allow that to come back into my life. And I think I've got a pretty good handle on that now. But, but still, there's things about me from my youth that I had mentioned before. I had to learn to change the story about my upbringing. What I learned was, I would go into graphic detail about the physical and mental abuse that I was served as a child. And what I realized is that I was telling that story in those details, to get a specific response from people. I was seeking their pity, their empathy, you know, and not only that, but I was giving that person an image of my father. And that wasn't fair. They don't have that relationship with him, but whenever somebody met him, they would look at him with that with that. So when I realized that we are all trying to do the best that we can with what we have And I learned to forgive him a little bit. So then I begin diminishing the details of the story to the point where now I just say, Yeah, my dad, and I didn't get along very well. And people just hear that and they don't start asking any more questions. So that's a big relief to release that.

Siobhan: 15:21

How did you figure out how to do that?

Raul: 15:25

I, you know, I have no idea how things come into the mind. I ponder a lot. Yeah. And sometimes I get little tidbits of wisdom that I grasp onto. I had this sort of a daydream years ago, where I imagined my life as an etch a sketch the screen of an etch a sketch, and I could see all of the experiences that I had had. And then I started looking between the etchings, and there were words like, you're no good, and you'll never amount to anything. And I started feeling sick to my stomach, like, wow, what is that? Why is that on my screen, and I looked back, and it was my dad controlling the knobs. And it frustrated me so much that I closed my eyes. And I shook my Etch A Sketch. And I said, That's not who I am. And I opened my eyes and the screen was clear. And that's when I realized I'm the captain of my own ship, I get to decide what happens next. And that was a huge revelation for me. And that is not to say that I have let I've forgiven but not forgotten. And when I hate when I spend time with them, my family, my mom and dad, there's still buttons that exist within me. And he could just do the slightest thing, and I just get flared right up, you know? So I've tried going to, you know, talk therapy and just haven't really found any help in that regard. I don't know if I'm too stubborn to go deeply into that. So I've just relied on, you know, my own thought process. And I feel like I've done pretty good. You know, it's, you know, one day at a time. Yeah. Yeah. So there's that was, that was the short end of that story.

Siobhan: 17:37

When you when you were talking about your first ex wife, and you were talking about how when once she had lost the baby, that she kind of leaned into their math? Yeah. What did you lean into for that pain? Like, what did you kind of go to to help you out? Heal yourself? Because that's a big loss.

Raul: 17:52

Right? Well, the convenience and the availability of the math, what that was our medication, right, you know, that was pretty much it. What so once I was able to let that go, I recognized because I'm all or nothing. So then I, that's when I got back into drinking. And that's when I started smoking more pot. So I'd let one go and picked up another one. And cigarettes, I smoked cigarettes for 30 years. It was 12 years ago, now that I let that go. And that I found that very cathartic. It was a really hard thing to do. But I'm glad that I have. So yeah, I think it was the meth until I realized like, oh, shit, that's gonna fuck me up. Right. You know,

Siobhan: 18:40

did you have a hard time quitting that? I know, it's not comparable to cigarettes, but

Raul: 18:45

Right. You know, ultimately, I don't think that it was hard. Because I saw the impact that it was having on her. And that kind of just scared me straight. as it were. Yeah.

Siobhan: 18:58

Yeah, like math. People that do a lot of math. They certainly have a look. And like, once you kind of know that, look, it's hard to not see it and the people that are using it.

Raul: 19:08

Oh, yeah. Like she was getting the little blisters. And she kept scratching at them. But yeah. Oh, damn.

Siobhan: 19:13

Yeah. mathema width is a real thing.

Raul: 19:15

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I had a feeling that all of the topics that I brought up today might be a little more gloomy than the other, but it's important

Siobhan: 19:27

it is it's it's real life. And it's, you know, I think I just had one of my customers. I mean, I work at a bar at the time that you that talking about a lot of the people that I've talked to so far on here, and, you know, someone was like, well, don't you have a hard time that you give up drugs? Some days. Some days, I do have some days when I know there's someone that's at my bar that's had too much and he's gonna be back tomorrow and the next day and I just had one of my regulars who was here. We've got him he was in we have and he's doing great. And now he fell off the wagon and he was in and drinking and we're going back and forth about stuff and he said something about rehab and how I didn't know what it was like. And I was like, Why do you assume I don't. And he just kind of looked at me and I was like, I went to a facility. I was seven days inpatient. And he was like, what? And I was again, like, not everyone. Like, where's that on their sleeve? It's not something I talked about as often. But like when I was in my bad period, and I went, and one of the problems I had is because I wasn't an addict. I had been over medicated, but I wasn't feeling poor. I wasn't, I didn't have like, the addictive tendencies. And I didn't have to search for it because I was prescribed it. Yeah, but because I didn't have as big of an addiction problem. Like, I didn't get as much help. Because I was just, like, sad. And they're like, Well, you can outpatient for that, like, oh, okay, I'm here for a reason. But everything was so focused on addiction. And because so much of addiction is what are mental health is what causes the addiction. With the addiction takes up so much of the kind of space, it's not much room for the mental health. And that makes it really hard when you're trying to get help, and you have one of those problems, but not the other. Or what if really fucked and you have both, I guess. But it was just like the shock of it. And then another customer was like, Oh, I had no idea. You had all those problems. And I was like, why would you write? Like, why would you know why? You know, like, it seemed like such a weird thing to say like, oh, I had no, like, I would never guess you had suicide attempts. But I wouldn't also assume that you didn't write Sure. Like I wouldn't know. Like, I How could I know? Right? Yeah,

Raul: 21:29

again, you know, people. When I mentioned that, the person that you know, today is of my own creation. And I present myself as a very happy go lucky, right person, because I have to create that every morning I put my feet on the ground. The first thing I do give gratitude that I'm that I'm here, and today is going to be a great day. And sometimes it is that kind of fake it till you make it thing sometimes it's like, oh, no, I just want to feel like crap today. And that's fine.

Siobhan: 22:01

It's gonna ask do you let yourself have those days? I do. Yeah. What's your go to crap day? Like when you're really feeling crappy? What are the things that you do that like make you like, settle either settle into it or just like ride it?

Raul: 22:15

Just lay in bed? Yeah, I just I just got a new mattress. A friend referred me to a place here in Alameda. And it was Presidents Day sale. And so I you know, I splurged a little bit. And I'm so glad that I did because all

Siobhan: 22:31

right, well, we're back from a little technical difficulties. That's all right. That's the joy of learning new skills.

Raul: 22:40

Well, and an opportunity to go use the bathroom. Refreshed, fresh cocktails. Cheers, my friend. Absolutely. Cheers, everyone listening, because I hope you're all drinking while you're listening to smoke, smoke eaters.

Siobhan: 22:57

They have both going on right now.

Raul: 23:00

So we had left off talking about the new mattress and blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, it's great mattress. I had brought up the fact that there was a recurring theme in your podcasts of things happening for a reason? Yes, they do. No, they don't. And the fact that at least for myself having to look for the reason why did this happen. And for myself, as a massage therapist, slash healer. I feel like I needed to know what pain felt like physical and emotional pain, felt like and I have, that's where I learned to say thank you, Father for being that abusive person, because I understand pain on a very visceral level. And, and conversely, I give gratitude for my mom for being the compassionate caregiver. And I've really adopted that as well. So that while I'm working on someone, I really dive in deeply and find where the pain is coming from, and actually deliver a little bit of a lot of intensity, right? Once you hit the core of where that pain has been stored. I present it to the person and invite for them to press into it a little bit more. And have them experience the root of that. And then be the compassionate caregiver and help them to unwind those stuck patterns. And I encourage my people, to my people, my clients to be as comfortable and relaxed as possible within those four walls, you can emote any way that comes up. laughter, tears, F bombs, you know, whatever you need to get through past that point for that ultimate release. And I feel so grateful that so many of my clients have taken the time to write reviews about my services. And I always joke that, you know, if I were to pass away tomorrow, I've read my eulogy, and all of the kinds of things that people have to say about that's beautiful. Yeah, yeah. So

Siobhan: 25:40

I have to say, your table is one of the most uncomfortable tables I've been on. I've been on a lot of table. Yeah, you just had little things that one I've never seen or had before, like the chest, chest pillow that you have for women that I've never had that before. And I've had a lot of table time with a lot of different people in a lot of different places. Yeah, no arm hammock in the warmth. And that just like your your environment is very nice and inviting.

Raul: 26:04

Thank you so much. It really is a big focus. I think that when the recipient feels comfortable, when they feel heard, they're willing to go further into it. You know, I, I've had conversations with some of my clients, I can tell when someone comes in, like, I got a gift certificate, and I'm here for massage. And they're already coming in with doubt. Right? Right. And so I have said to them, like, Hey, if you doubt that we're able to accomplish anything, I doubt to I don't think that we're going to accomplish anything. But when someone comes in, and they're open and receptive. I've been, I've had some amazing experiences with people letting go of trauma of of physical, emotional spiritual, lock, you know, I always remind people, like if you go through the Einsteinian filter, everything is energy or mass. So somewhere along your body's history, there has been an energetic block within the tissues of your body. Right. So kind of like a 3d combination, lock, through my skilled touch and the recipients participation, we're able to unwind those patterns and get to the core. And I know exactly at the point when we reach that, because I just hold the spot, and you feel the body of the recipient. And there and then the tears come or the laughter, or the F bombs, right. I really try to leave it up to the recipient to be in charge, I usually give a reference of an intensity dial, and I work between about a four and a seven. And when I get to that seven, I know because I can feel their breath start to get more rapid and their heartbeat faster. And when I hold that spot, and then I invite them to press into it. Right, they're able to be in charge of how deep that goes. The word pain for me is quite literally a four letter word, pain equals hurt, we don't want to hurt so we usually withdraw from that. But if something is intense, wow, that's really intense. But I can do a little more. Right, I can press a little more. And when they get to that spot, and their eyebrows start sweating. I know that we're that we're doing the work. And I call that the intuitive edge. Right? People often say and have written in reviews, like, you know how to get to the point where it's just like that that's but Oh, it's so good. It hurts so good, you know. And that's not something that you learn in massage school, the intuition is 99% of what I do. Massage is a very small part of it. You know, I have learned through my education, how to touch a body and how to use my own body to help deliver the healing quote unquote. But truly, it's the intuition. I feel like my hands are a planchette from a Ouija board and I connect with the body and it just the body pulls me like you need to be over here and oftentimes I feel like I'm surrounded in the studio by past healing masters. I sense those presence. And I, when I'm holding a spot, one energy will come through me and tell me you need to, you know, press and shake, or you need to use your elbow, or you need to just hold and allow the process to happen. So it's really it's a fascinating experience. I love what I do. I really do. And people ask me like, Don't you get tired? Oh, no, quite the opposite. After after a good session, I feel more energized. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. And that brings me to my next thing, like, how do I take care of myself, enter the DJ. Right? I spend my days Monday through Friday in a dimly lit room with very soft music, right? So I need to get out and create an environment of the opposite of that, right? lights and music. And

Siobhan: 31:11

then a way to kind of move some of that energy probably through your body and out correct, because if you're taking in and you're feeling energized, you have all this extra energy that but then where you put it in, like, because you've got to get it out through your body. And if you're always moving in those slow, kind of smaller rooms with the smaller, you're kind of using all that energy in a small space, it would make sense that you didn't have to kind of go and like get it all out into a big space.

Raul: 31:33

Yeah. And the same with swing dancing, go out and move my body in a way that helps me to shake all of the things off. And in the meantime, if I get to make my partner partner have fun, right, fantastic. You know, I started swing dancing. I grew up really near Disneyland. Oh, okay. Yeah. Down in Southern California. And as a kid, we would go pretty regularly, and we had Season Passes. That's pretty cool. So after a while, you know, all of the rides back and forth. But what was different was going to the carnation Plaza, which is where they had the big band, and you would see the old folks dance to the big band. And that would just sit at the at the front of the stage and just with my head in my hands, watching these old folks dancing, and it was just so magical. So, you know, I think it was early 80s when MTV came out, and the stray cats had their music videos, and there were people swing dancing. I said, Oh, I know. That's, I've seen that. Right? So then we had a banister in our house, and I would wrap a towel around it, and use that as my dance party. While I learned how to dance, that's kind of ingenious. And so then, you know, back in back in the late 80s, early 90s, swing had already started kind of gaining some steam. So I tried to go into a couple of swing clubs, swing music. And the girls were like, Oh, you're a horrible lead. And oh, that just fueled me even more I have to get good. So I started practicing more and more. And I made myself a promise that once I learned the basics of East Coast Swing, I would buy myself a pair of black and white spectator shoes. And once I learned the basics of Lindy Hop, I would buy myself a Zoot Suit.

Siobhan: 33:30

How many seats do you Oh, no, I

Raul: 33:32

just have one, I just have one. Yeah. But it really showed me that if I set my mind to something, I can accomplish whatever I want, as powerful that truly is. And it was just another example of me. Recreating myself, you know, I, I saw an opportunity and applied myself to it. And I created a new chapter for myself. And I kind of feel like I'm there right now. Just coming out of a 12 year relationship. And recognizing that I had given up so much autonomy in that relationship. And when I say giving up the autonomy, some people might call that compromise. Right? Because I love this person so much. I'm willing to accept this release of something that's important to me. But ultimately, I wasn't happy, right, you know. So, it was a little rough, you know, making that decision. And since I have though, I feel so much happier, so much more at peace that's important and having moved to new new location here in Alameda and having a beautiful park in my front yard and seeing people do Tai Chi and yoga kids playing the crows. I love the cross. I just feel like in this chapter of my life, I'm 54. Now. Oh, life is good. In fact, I have a Banksy print that has Billie Holiday. And it's, it says life is beautiful. And I have that in my window above my bed facing out to the park. And the landlord came by a few days after I put that up there. He says, I love that. Oh, wow. And I see people walking by the apartment seeing that. And it's true. I mean, ultimately, if we choose to decide that life is beautiful it can be there is there's a lot of crap going on. But if that's what you focus on, you're attract more crap into your life. You know, but I'm attracting beauty into my life. I'm attracting positive people such as yourself into my life. And I'm really looking forward to what else is possible.

Siobhan: 36:12

Yeah, I think that's a statement about like, what you get out, you get back what you put out. Like, if you're putting out shit, you're gonna get shipped back. Yeah. If you're putting out good things, you'll get put things back. And it's not always easy. There are days that I wake up, and I'm like, I don't want to do this. Yeah, there are days that I wake up, and I'm like, I'm not going to do this. But more days, not I'm up in a mountain. I'm trying and I'm, like, grateful also to be here and grateful to be experiencing all the things that I am. Yeah. And even on the shitty days. I like I'm grateful for those because then they remind me of the good days like, and it reminds me like, of how far I've come like, Oh, I haven't had one of these days in a long time. I guess maybe I'm due. And then it doesn't feel like such a shitty day. It's just like, oh, yeah, I guess. Maybe it's also because I'm overtired. Because I've been going so much or, you know, there might be one of a million other reasons why I'm not feeling like I'm getting out. I don't want to get out of bed. But it's not always just because I'm like, depressed or in that nothingness that we're talking about?

Raul: 37:11

Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting that you mentioned that, because when I would go into those depressive episodes, I began to recognize that it's not permanent. There's always an end. It sucks. And then it doesn't. Yeah, you know. And once I began to recognize that, I realized, as I sunk into, like, you're gonna, you're gonna get through this you've gotten through before. And what I noticed is those episodes started getting shorter, and shorter. And so now, if I am, you know, if I wake up, I'm like, I just don't want to do a fucking thing. Okay, honor that hanging out. Because, you know, at the outset of that, you're gonna have an amazing day. You know, and, and, you know, I think, in the recording, hopefully, we still have the part where we talked about, you don't know what someone else is going through. Right? So because we have so many mutual friends that we know, some of them are going through hard times, to just be there with and for them. And next thing, you know, you see them smiling and having a good time. And maybe you had something to do with that. Maybe not. But in the meantime, you know, I feel like we've done our part. Just be a good person. That's the bottom line.

Siobhan: 38:36

Yeah. And I think sometimes like holding space for someone is really difficult for people. Because we're so in like this, fix it move on, or like quick fix kind of things, or, like, let's hack this or hack that like, and sometimes there's no hacking it, you just have to be in awkward positions. Like, when someone's really sad, like they don't, sometimes the worst thing you can do is try to fix it. Like just holding space and being like, okay, let's be sad. And then that's it, you just sit there with them. That feeling is so awkward and weird. And sometimes it's just like, how long is this gonna last? But if you can push through that and just sit there in the silence for a little bit, usually one of you will kind of get to the point where you know, it's okay to talk or okay to do something. And then you kind of come back out of it a little. Yeah. And even just it's like 10 minutes. And it's like, that person's now like just feels heard or seen or cared for a little bit, right? And then it makes not getting over it because you're not over it that fast. But it makes like, Okay, this isn't going to be that bad, or I will get through this. Now I can kind of focus on this thing for a second.

Raul: 39:40

You reminded me of the movie Inside Out. There's always room for sadness. I don't know if you've seen that. I worked at actually I worked at Pixar doing bodywork there, oh, four and a half years. Yeah. It's the only time that I've actually worked for someone else. And that was completely by choice. But it was it was a wonderful Experience and horrible experience. Because each time you have a new person coming in, they have 15 minutes. They can pay for an extra 15. But most of them are 15 minutes. So there is no time for chitchat, they just jump on the table and say, fix me. So, that kind of goes against my whole approach, right, you know, you want to talk to the muscle and get in there. So it really felt very soul sucking to be just like this machine of next, next next, and you have to dive in 100%. And it was so taxing on my body, and on my spirit, that I finally had to bow out and say, Thank you so much for this opportunity, because it was the campus is gorgeous, and there are lots of perks. But ultimately, I just take that in as, as an as a life experience. Like I got to work at Pixar, like, yeah,

Siobhan: 41:03

we I mean, I am kind of just 15 minutes. What can you even really get done on someone's body who sits at a chair for eight hours a day? I could do a lot. I mean, two minutes. I mean, you are talented, but still like, that seems like no time at all.

Raul: 41:17

Well, they're very specific. Right? their neck, shoulders, forearms, right carpal tunnel, right. In fact, Sandy, the owner of the fireside has said you should come and do massage, you know, there and just charge X amount for, you know, so many minutes. And I've actually done it a few times. And people are like, here, let me buy your drink. I'm like, okay, yeah. dealt with that. When I

Siobhan: 41:42

was in Vegas. They had girls walking around to the tables and doing massages there and they had little pillows so you could lean against the table while they were doing your back. Like some of the guys were still playing cards while they were doing it. Some guys were like sitting at the table just taking like a 10 minute break playing cards while they did it. It was really interesting. I need

Raul: 41:59

to find out where these 80 year old Cougars play in Vegas. For they don't want a 54 year old Latin Scorpio male to rub on them a little bit.

Siobhan: 42:09

They go find an old lady that just wants to give you a million so robber down

Raul: 42:17

yeah, I'm gonna leave that topic.

Siobhan: 42:19

So you're I have so many questions now too. So first of all your your style of bodywork you called it something the other day when I introduced you to someone and I really liked that term.

Raul: 42:29

Oh, biokinetic therapy? Yeah, yeah. Body touch. Yeah. Right. It's, it's really going back to that intuition of connecting and following the energy. I can't say more about that. And

Siobhan: 42:47

have you taken like a lot of different energy modalities to learn that, is it something that's come naturally to you? Is it a mix? Like how did you kind of build that intuition? Or Sure,

Raul: 42:57

actually, I'll go back a little bit further. Growing up trying to appease my father's idea of what a sex successful man is supposed to be behind a desk wearing a suit, right? And when I got married the second time, she said to me, every day you come home from work, you're miserable. What are you going to do? And this is, I don't know, be a massage therapist. didn't grow up in a touchy feely family wasn't quite touchy feely with people. But that's what came to me. So when we were on honeymoon in Madrid, Spain, when she asked me this question, so we went to an internet cafe back when that was the thing. And I did some research and saw that the San Francisco School of Massage, had a course starting the day after we got back into town. So I went and every morning, they would do a check in and we would all meditate. And I just felt this warm wash take over my body. And I felt like home. So through my education I you know, I did the basic and the advanced. Swedish deep tissue trigger point. I studied private Thai massage. I've done cranial sacral prenatal. I became a workshop junkie, I would just you know, I want this. I got to actually take a private Lomi Lomi massage Hawaiian massage class on kawaii easing using Yeah. I reached out to the instructor and she mentioned Oh, sorry, we just had our group class, you know, finish. And she said, Well, if you're going to be here during those days, I don't have anything going on. So I'll do a class with you. So my ex girlfriend got to be the demo body. For the instructor, myself, right. And I had my grand graduation ceremony on Kalapaki Bay. A just absolutely beautiful. But the intuition part, that's kind of the biggest aspect. And I don't know where that comes from. And so this is why I continue to refer to and rely on those past healers that really come through. And I often see my grandmother there with me and I feel her blessing. The only time that I really remember body work ahead of that was my aunt Lily, would tell me to lay down on the floor, and she would put her feet on me and use her feet in a shiatsu or like shaking the body. So I feel that that presence was really she's also passed as well. But I feel that her her gift to me was placing the seed that that might be where I'm headed. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah. I think that it's so wonderful to say, I love what I do. And I think you do as well, I do. You know, you talk about how, when you're behind the bar, you're a different person. And you shine, when you're back to I remember seeing you when you started coming around the fireside, and you're just radiating energy and joy. And it's like, I need to know that person. It's true. It's true. And you know, you've in the, in the short time that you've been here, you've built a really nice community for yourself.

Siobhan: 46:29

Yeah, it's been nice. It's this place has felt like home. And I hadn't had that in a really long time. I grew up with a big family. So home was always like a confusing place. Because it was like I had roles everywhere I went and like here, I just get to be the kind of most authentic version of myself, which is really nice. And it's you know, I get to be that goofy, silly, fun person. But it is different when I'm behind the bar, as opposed to on the side of the bar. Being on, you know, behind the bar is like a comfort place. And it's like I get to be a different kind of bigger version of myself, because it's my job to make sure everyone is having a good time. Right? Like, you know, and Donna and I talked about it. And she summed it up the best or the boss that she had that told her, it's your party, if you're not having fun, no one does. That's correct. And that is such a true statement with what we do. And you know, our jobs, and I just enjoy that part. Like I like being the bright spot in someone's day. And, or I like when I'm not having great day, and I go to work and someone else's the bright spot in my day, and then it gets to I get to turn around and return that energy to either that person or someone else because it helps me get out of my own way.

Raul: 47:31

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think that that's, that's the foundation, that's the basis for how I choose to live my life. Right? Because of my upbringing. I don't feel that I ever got the accolades. Right. So everything that I do in my life is kind of asking for people to say, Hey, you did a really good massage. Hey, that was a really good DJ set for people to give that acknowledgement. I'm okay with that. Yeah, I have no problem with that. My, when I feel I've had a good day is I know that I've had a positive impact on someone's life. So if I'm DJing, and people are dancing, I feel great. You know, when people come up and say, Ooh, what song is that? I feel great. When people want to, I'm doing a massage and I'm hitting a muscle. Hey, what muscle is that? And I can share with them. And you know, same thing with dance lessons. If I can help someone have a better day. I feel like I've lived a good life.

Siobhan: 48:42

Yeah, yeah. It's it's a good day.

Raul: 48:44

It's a good day. Yeah. I mean, that's, that kind of wraps it up. Yeah. Just try and help you out. Have a

Siobhan: 48:51

good day. Yeah. And I always say like, at the end of them, I always say try to find your joy, because I think you have to find it some days. It's not always just gonna come to some days it does. Some days, it pops right up in your face. But other days, you have to look for weird joy is Yeah, and sometimes it's in a cup of coffee. Sometimes it's in a conversation. Sometimes it's coming around the corner and see nothing but green lights, you know, like, all those little moments like, look for them, and you'll see them more often. And then they keep coming. And then yeah, you know, you turn another corner and you'll have a great beautiful view of the bay or wherever you live. You know,

Raul: 49:24

you reminded me. Are you familiar with the law of attraction? Okay. So I had just watched the movie, The Secret. And one of the talking heads in that movie said, start with something simple, like a cup of coffee. So down the street from where I lived was a place called spritzers cafe. And I was a regular there was, you know, so close to my house. And one day the owner said, Hey, how would you feel about DJing in front of the coffee shop during the fourth of July parade? Well, that's sounds incredible. He says, Well, how much would you charge? I said, How about a cup of coffee every day. And he's like, done. And he invited me back over and over. That was that quick that had happened. And the kind of spinning off from that, regarding the law of attraction, I met a doctor named Massaro Emoto. He is the doctor that did the experiment with hidden messages in water. If you're familiar with that, yeah, he spoke at a conference, the world healing conference sound healing conference in San Francisco. And he speaks Japanese, that's his thing. But after his interview, he was waiting. After his speech, he was waiting for an interview with a radio station. And I spoke with his translator asked if he would like a massage. And he said, Hi. So I massaged him for about 15 minutes before they called him in Sanko for massage, very very Miyagi. But his experiment with with water crystals was fascinating. Because the first one he took a sample of water from a polluted damage Japan, and then did a flash freeze on it and took pictures of the crystals. And as you might imagine, dirty polluted water was just like these kind of gross images. And then he thought the water and vited his peers to offer an intention of purity and cleanliness on this water, and a frozen again, and just beautiful snowflakes. So he took that further and would in Japanese kanji write a message like love and take pictures of that just beautiful, right? And then he would take pictures of I will hurt you. War, and all of these, you know. And so the realization is that we're comprised mostly of water, ourselves. So the actions and words that we speak about ourselves and others are so impactful. You know, so it goes back to that, you know, you never know what someone is going through. Just be kind don't be a dick. Right? You know. And I think that it's possible to live a happy existence with, regardless of the stuff that's going on.

Siobhan: 52:28

Yeah, I think some of the happiest people I know. If people knew what was going on in their lives, they wouldn't know how they got out of bed or tied their shoes, or did any of the things that they doing. And then there's some of the people that I know that all they fucking do is complain. And I'm like, you legitimately have nothing to complain about in your life. Right? Like, you have enough money, you have a roof over your head, you have a car that works, you have a job, like, you have all of the things that most people are trying to get. And all you're doing is complaining about stupid shit. And I'm like, those are the people sometimes that drive me crazy, because I'm like, You have never really tasted true adversity,

Raul: 53:02

right? And you're absolutely correct. People that are always complaining will always find something to complain about. Right? I know, people that talk themselves sick, they just continue to talk, oh, this and that. And guess what? They're going to keep being sick. And I also know people, oh, I never get sick. I guess they never do. It's all in the attitude and the approach. And it's a choice that we have.

Siobhan: 53:27

Well, because, and one of the reasons why this podcast is called ducking reality is because one, it's like spilling the tea, you know, while we're sitting here chatting. But the other thing is because you create your own reality, like you really do, like your perception is your reality. You modify your perception, you modify your reality, like it's all up to you and let that's like the real fucking kicker in life too, is that it's really up to you. Like, because when I go back and look at all the bad decisions I've ever made in my life, at one point, or I knew they were not the right decision. Like if I really am honest with myself, like I had the England I had the little twinge in my gut that said like, oh, danger Will Robinson danger, like, flags, flags, not a carnival. I had all those moments and I just fuckin blew right past him. Because I thought like, oh, no, I know better. I'm gonna make it better. If I can deny it, like,

Raul: 54:19

you're absolutely right. And I was just listening to a clip on Instagram. This woman's saying that the only true power that we have is our choice. Right? How am I going to react to this situation, most typically will react the way that we're used to reacting until you recognize this doesn't serve me anymore. Every time I react that way, x happens and x doesn't feel good. So change it right. You know, like the old saying like, if you walk down a road, and you fall in the pothole, next time you On the pothole, realize that doesn't feel good. Walk around the pothole, change your change your course. It's up to you.

Siobhan: 55:09

And it's not easy and like that's the one part I think that I will keep drilling home is like, it's not easy to do. It sucks a lot of the time. Like new things suck, changing who you are sucks. It's a lot of work. Like it's therapy. It's reading, it's taking the time it takes learning to take a breath before you react. Yeah, like, I think that's one of the most powerful things I've learned to do is like I respond instead of react, like, my first gut reaction is not usually what I go with anymore, right? Because that's not usually it's not my God. It's my trauma. Yeah. First of all, yes. Then second of all, like, it's because your brain adapts so quickly to your known normal that like sometimes you don't realize that you're even reacting in such a. Like, what's the word I'm looking for? I just had a gap on that word. overreaction. Oh, your level of reaction is not? Yeah. Like, applicable to the situation. And I think that that's like when you can catch yourself in those moments and be like, Oh, she just said, like, my coffee is wrong. But instead of screaming at her, I can be like, Hey, sorry, can you fix that? Right? Yeah, like your whole day changes. Yeah.

Raul: 56:29

You know, it sucks. Until it doesn't, right. And one of the big sucks of 2020 was COVID in the pandemic, right. And I chose to not let it get to me. I mean, I had to do all of the I didn't have to, I chose to do all of the compliant things. Like I would come home and set up a little folding table in my front yard and wipe down every single fucking piece of grocery, right? Because, you know, we didn't know what was going on. But at the same time, I'm like, we're going we have free time now. Pull out your records, listen to your vinyl, ask your friends for Song recommendations as you sang for book recommendations. I pulled out roller skates and I hadn't really skated in years, and started roller skating again, because we were allowed to go out and get personal exercise. You know? So it's, it's all a choice, if you want it to be shittier. It'll be shitty. And I know a lot of people they're saying all this rocket and socks and blah, blah, blah. And yeah, it could. Or you could do something different. You know, it kind of felt like it took us back to a different era where people had to have dinner together at home, you know, going out for walks together, seeing when when people were putting little teddy bears in their windows, just to give encouragement for those that had to walk by? Yes, more of that kindness. Yeah, I did. I did a little chalk maze in front of my house that people had to like, take three steps and then jump and walk backwards, you know, and that would just sit up in my window. And watch. Yeah, there was a lady on Facebook marketplace that said, Hey, I have these three little figurines of fairies who wants them, I went and grabbed him and I created a fairy garden in my front yard. Oh, cute. I love a fairy garden. And it started getting bigger and bigger. And I will just watching families come by and just get so much joy. And the little the little kids would sit there and just like their imagination was going crazy. They didn't know life pre masks. Right, right. That's huge. So it's our choice. If you want to make something fun of it. If you want to make it shitty. You can do that. That's you, boo. Yeah, you know?

Siobhan: 58:52

Yeah, I have people that will come to the bar. And they'll talk about the one bad thing that happened in their day over and over and over again, to every person that comes in. And I think

Raul: 59:02

same exact words basically wrote a story. Yep.

Siobhan: 59:06

And it's like, okay, this is now you've been sitting here for three hours. And you've now told that story 15 more times? Like, why is the 16th time going to make you feel better about that bad shit that happened to you? No. And I understand sharing your day like I am all about it. Right? What do you have to share that same? If that's something that happened to at 7am? It's still what you're talking about at 6pm? Right? Like, that's you. Right? That's you harping because nothing else happened in your day that you want to talk about, right? Nothing else. bad or good? It's just that one thing that started your day off? Yeah, that's what we're harping on for the rest of the day. Like, that's you that's you, like, get after it, but like, also know that you're doing it to yourself.

Raul: 59:49

That goes back to my earlier statement about how I used to go into gory details of my upbringing because we are hoping for Have an empathetic response people to be on that level with you see, oh my god, that sucks. That's so terrible. And so you have to go through that. But how many times do you have to say it until you feel better? Right, right? And if you keep saying it, you're gonna keep yourself in that misery.

Siobhan: 1:00:18

Yeah, well, because you're keeping part of your body in that time

Raul: 1:00:23

absolutely is your body. It's it's the hidden messages in water, your keep your you keep repeating that miserable story, you're gonna keep yourself in that. It reminds me I often refer to this movie from Trey Parker and Matt Stone from South Park fame. They did a movie called basketball and there was a character in that movie. That was kind of like the punching bag. And he said, if you guys treat me like shit, 15 or 16 more times I'm leaving. Right? Because they, they're just willing to take it right. You know, at some point, you're going to realize this no longer serves me. And I need to let that go. And I hope that people, if anything from this conversation that you and I've had today is that people recognize that it's okay to let go of things that don't serve you of people that don't serve you. That doesn't mean don't be a deck. That doesn't mean don't treat people like shit. But if something isn't working in your life, shake up your Etch A Sketch, and let that shit go. Yeah, start over. Yeah, you get to be in charge. If you want to be fun, great. If you want to be miserable, that's up to you. Right, right.

Siobhan: 1:01:36

Yeah, just like you carry your, your Instagram or your music or your you can curate your life like absolutely, you know, when you were talking earlier about, like, getting rid of the toxic people, getting rid of a toxic person doesn't have to be a huge thing, right? You know, you can see someone I know someone shouldn't have quite as much access to your life because you feel like shit every time you hang out with them. So you don't have to like confront that person and tell them that they truly didn't, you know, you can just alter your day, see them a little less. And if they're not reaching back out to you, then they're probably maybe feeling a similar way. Maybe the reason that they're so toxic in your life is because you're toxic, and they're like, I'd be like, so maybe you don't have to tell that person exactly what you are thinking that they're causing in your life, you just change. Don't go to that coffee shop or don't go to that place all the time. Check out a new one. Maybe you'll find an even better person at the other one, right? It's like just altering your day a little bit will change all of that. Yeah. And you can do it in small steps or do it in one fell swoop like you can change your life overnight. If you want it to overnight

Raul: 1:02:40

in the next breath. Yeah, right. You just really brought a smile to my face. I have this proclivity towards, in my mind creating t shirt designs and curate your life is such a good t shirt. Well, good. You're right your life.

Siobhan: 1:03:01

Absolutely. Like you know you make your life what you want it to be you control your reality. So if you don't like where you live, change it. Yeah, if you get to the new spot, and you don't like it, and you're like, oh shit, I really didn't like where I lived, then go back. And if that's or you move somewhere and you're like, alright, this isn't either move again. Like, it's not easy, but it's better than being miserable or settling. Because I think settling builds resentment like nothing else.

Raul: 1:03:27

And it seems that some people, some people that we know, like to curate drama, oh, curate misery. And that is that that's what gets them through the day. Fantastic. I choose joy. Yeah, I choose happiness. So I think that that kind of binds well, to your find your joy. Yeah, you know, follow your bliss.

Siobhan: 1:03:56

Absolutely. Because it's really life is too short. It goes by too quickly. And I think for whatever reason, maybe it was like the assembly line mentality of like, what school treats you because, you know, schools were built to make good factory workers. factory workers are used to monotony like we were trained as humans to kind of get into this pattern of you get up, you have your coffee, you go to work, you have lunch, you go back to work, you come home, you have dinner, you watch TV, you go to bed, rinse, repeat, do it all. Like people don't have hobbies anymore. They don't have leisure activities as much. And some of that is because the world got harder and harder and more money, you know, and it's expensive. But it's also got to like, we were just trained in factory to interview factory workers, like when people talk about sheep. Yeah, like that's what they're talking about is like you just go with the flow, like, not even the flow. You're going with the blandest kind of day, you can Yeah. When did that happen?

Raul: 1:04:56

I feel that there's room for a whole other podcast. Just about that about creating the sheep. Yeah, you know, moldable. Because if we become too intelligent, if if we become too intelligent, we're no longer under the control. I'm going there.

Siobhan: 1:05:16

Yeah. But that's true. Because like, they will ask questions you asked less. Like, the more control you give up that would last questions you ask. So if you're just going with the status quo all the time, and you're not pushing for anything, and you're not like, kind of going outside the lines, then what? Where do you find your joy? Right? That's true. Like, you're not gonna find your joy in front of your TV. I mean, maybe some nights, but not often. Yeah. You know, those TVs and movies will move you in certain ways. But unless you're out in the world experiencing things, and then I don't know how you sometimes find that? Yeah, that's true. You know, and I think with computers and the amount of streamings, and then everyone being home for so long with COVID, we all kind of got into that comfort zone of just being home to Yeah. And people, some people are scared to be back out in the world, right? Or they just are kind of awkward about it. And they don't know how to push through that awkwardness. Yeah,

Raul: 1:06:12

it's true. It's true. So it is just a matter of back to your foundation.

Siobhan: 1:06:17

Find your joy. Yeah,

Raul: 1:06:18

you know, get one you're comfortable with. Everything that's going on, when you're comfortable enough to start branching back out. Go

Siobhan: 1:06:29

explore, yeah, in it, you do have to be comfortable. to certain extent, yeah. There's pushing through your comfort zone. But you do have to have a level of comfort in yourself in order to be able to do that. Absolutely. But and then I think that will build confidence. Do I do want to ask you something?

Raul: 1:06:44

Oh, please. And I was just, I was just telling myself that. I've been talking so much you have? You haven't had many questions. So

Siobhan: 1:06:54

whatever. Well, when we were talking because it was I just had found it interesting. That was when we were talking about your first few relationships. You were saying how both of them were poly? And then you're talking about your longest or? Yeah, I think your longest, which is the 12 years that you just got out, right. And you were seeing how you a lot of that was compromise, and like you just couldn't compromise anymore? Or like at the end of it, you felt like you had given up so much of yourself. And from what I understand from knowing us that relationship was monogamous? Yes. Is that one of the biggest things you compromised on? And is that what made it so different? Or is that just one of many things that you felt like you kind of gave up?

Raul: 1:07:33

That was one of many things that I gave up. At the outset that at the beginning of the relationship, I really felt like this person had very something something very special that I hadn't experienced before. And they were very admiring of me. And I loved that. We were both performers. I had my band and this person was a burlesque performer. And so I think that it was my idealizing what I thought this person was as opposed to who they really were. For my for me, I love for example, burning incense or candles. Nope. I love wearing cologne. No. I love eating a certain thing. No. Right? And I was like, Okay, well I can, I can be fine. Without that, you know, I can be fine without that because this person loves me and so on and so forth. And, and at the beginning, intimacy was huge, right all the time. It's kind of that N R E as it's referred to, by Friends, the new relationship energy, right? And it seemed as if all of that intimacy started to become less and less frequent. And I was still giving 100% of all of myself and my compromise. And then it was like, wait a minute, I'm doing so much for this relationship. And this person is giving so much less than initially they initially were. So I had to reevaluate and recognize that it was I needed to get back to myself and the things that are important to me. And of course, I mean, no ill will. Oh, and on that on that aspect, and I hope that they find the person that is not wearing perfume and doesn't mind eating X y&z But yeah, does that answer? Yeah,

Siobhan: 1:09:48

it does. And it just makes me think. I wonder sometimes when, you know, because you do have to compromise when you get into a relationship, especially if you're going to be like cohabitating and things like that. So I'm always interested now because I've compromised on so much stuff too. So I wonder sometimes is the compromising? Like? Is it compromising? Or is it just giving up parts of yourself? Because if you're, if it's a compromise, can't you burn stuff sometimes? Or Can't you wear cologne on some days? Like? Or if you just have to give it up? Is it really a compromise?

Raul: 1:10:20

Right? Well, there are things that you might hope for in a relationship that are met. Right? So if that is met, then I'm willing to let this go. Right. Yeah, no trade offs are important. trade offs are important. So it's trade off trade compromise me

Siobhan: 1:10:39

or maybe it's just compromising is. I don't know. That's why it was kind of kind of pushing into that a little bit to think about it. Because, like, compromises are important in every relationship. You know, there's gives and takes. But I wonder sometimes if we tell ourselves, we're compromising when we're really giving up? I guess that's where I was going.

Raul: 1:10:57

i That sounds accurate. Like is, you know,

Siobhan: 1:11:00

is it sometimes? Are we fooling ourselves thinking we're compromising? Because we're trading off when really? Like, is it? Can you think of things that she kind of traded off or compromised for you? Were there things that you were like, No, I hate this. Don't do that anymore.

Raul: 1:11:15

Oh, certainly. Yeah. The certain speech patterns, strangely enough, like, Oh, I really get irked when when you speak in this fake accent. Right. And they made a concerted effort to let that go. Yeah. Though, you know, I started thinking as you were speaking about it that the compromise versus the letting go, is perhaps I didn't let go. I let go with a stipulation. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I didn't complete it. It was it was condition was conditional. Yeah, yeah. Like,

Siobhan: 1:11:57

I'll treat this as long as I get this. Right. If I don't get that, then you shouldn't get that.

Raul: 1:12:01

Yeah. And I kept giving that and she stopped giving. Yeah. So then I started resenting, and that's not no, that's not fair.

Siobhan: 1:12:10

Because it's what is there's a saying that it's like, insecurity breeds resentment. And I think that's huge. I think insecurities do breed resentments. But I also think, sometimes think compromises. Breed resentment. Because if you're not really compromising, then you're just, maybe it is if you're trading it off, but you're keeping that tally list. Yeah. It's the tally list. That fox? Yeah.

Raul: 1:12:34

I just got chills. I just got chills. I liked that. Esther and Jerry Hicks, if you're familiar with their work, teaching the teachings of Abraham, they refer to thrill bumps. I just got thrill bumps, because you hit something there. Yeah.

Siobhan: 1:12:53

Well, people and relationships fascinate me, because I'm just, I think I've been trying to figure them out since I was a kid. And obviously, I'm not doing a very good job, because I'm very single.

Unknown: 1:13:04

But well,

Siobhan: 1:13:06

it's also because there's some things that I won't compromise on. Yeah. And I'm okay with it.

Raul: 1:13:12

I think one thing that I've learned for myself is, should I attract another relationship? I think I want to have our separate places. When you are with someone as I was for 12 years, pretty much 24/7 You know, except for work. And once in a while, they will take a vacation with their friends. But you get to experience people at their at the very core level. Like I'm in the shower, and she wants to come and go to the bathroom. Right. Perhaps that's too much too much information. I don't need to know that much about you. Right. Oh, yeah, I

Siobhan: 1:13:59

will always have two bathrooms. At least. Yeah, yeah. I yeah, I believe I believe there shouldn't be some secrets, or some privacy's that you have, like, you know, I've no, I will pee in front of a guy. No, but I'll pee in front of you like on the street corner. Like that's really a big deal. You know, but anything more than that? No, thanks. Let's pretend I don't poop. Like I'm okay with that.

Raul: 1:14:19

Right.

Siobhan: 1:14:20

I am very okay with that. Yeah,

Raul: 1:14:22

you know, it's fine. If you want to stay the night a couple of nights, but have your own space. If you want to have dishes in your sink overnight. That's fine. If you don't want to make your bed. That's fine. Right. You know, but

Siobhan: 1:14:33

when that yeah, like when I'm home and I mean, I keep a pretty tidy house. Yeah. And when I have someone that's in my space that doesn't do that. It does. And then I can't relax because then I'm gonna clean up after you. And then you're gonna be like, don't clean up after me. And I'm gonna be like, but I can't sit here and relax by that shuts dirty. So like, you either need to do it or I'm gonna do it because it's not gonna sit here. Yeah. Or I'm gonna sit here staring at it and staring at you. Like, I'm gonna break that plate over your head if you don't do something,

Raul: 1:14:59

and then you're uncomfort Fill in your own space. Yeah. That does not equal

Siobhan: 1:15:03

No. Yeah. And, you know, if, if you can, you know, on a on a night when we put dishes in the sink, I can leave them there for the night. Yeah, like that. But if you're gonna sit with them next, you know, I can't, I can't even sit at a dirty dining table. Like, if I'm out at a restaurant and everyone's done eating, I'll start to stack the plates. And if they don't come soon, I will be like, Excuse me? Can I get the shit out of the way? Yeah, is it to me? It's just not how you relax,

Raul: 1:15:27

right? Yeah, proper. I agree with you. 100%. I, I can't sit still knowing that there's a pile there. I have to get up and do it. And then like, just calm down. Because you know, like, No, I will calm down. And once I know it's out of the way, right?

Siobhan: 1:15:46

And no one in the history of the world. I was thinking about this the other day, calm down, when someone tells you to calm down immediately makes you more angry. Yeah. And I was thinking everyone knows a joke about like, no one has ever calm down in the history of being told to calm down. And I was thinking, why is it and I had this thought of, is it because like when something traumatic is happening to you? Or if someone's doing something to hurt you? And they want to diminish you. That's what they say. Absolutely. So I think anytime someone then is in something, and they hear that it's like that person who was hurting you that first time is coming right back. And I wonder if that's one of those spots where like your subconscious or your trauma response, instead of letting you react?

Raul: 1:16:28

Yeah. And I think that they're telling you to calm down so that they're not,

Siobhan: 1:16:32

right, or because stress Yeah, or because they're hurting you and you're reacting in a way that they don't like so they're yelling at you then to calm down. You know, it's not that bad or whatever, because they are diminishing their actions on hurting you. So it's like a vicious cycle that we probably are not even aware of. That's so toxic. Yes. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a mindfuck when the person that's hurting you is telling you, they're not hurting you. Or diminishing it.

Raul: 1:16:56

I've been there. Ya know, having having a partner that does not take constructive information. But they flip it around and make it your fault. Oh, yeah. Oh, that gaslighting that was a total gaslighting situation that I was in, right? Anytime I tried to say like, Hey, this x and y bothers me. Well, you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, no, no, no, no, thank you. Yeah.

Siobhan: 1:17:30

And then you're like, No, that's not what we're talking about right now. It's like, oh, we can't even talk about myself. We can talk about yours. And then you're like, but that's not what's happening either right now, like, I'm trying to tell you about this one problem, so we can fix it. Yeah. And now you're doing all of this other stuff, instead of talking about the one problem that we're trying to fix? Yeah.

Raul: 1:17:46

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. It, I feel like in this time that we've been talking, I've actually learned quite a bit, not only about you, but more about myself. That's why this conversation Yeah, yeah, I get to look at my own perspective in a different way. And that's, that's huge.

Siobhan: 1:18:06

Yeah. Well, sometimes the mental gymnastics that we do in order to understand our own lives, you do them to protect yourself, but you don't even realize that you're doing them. Yeah. And then someone's like, hey, what about this? Like, why are you flipping there when you could be flipping this way? And you're like, wait a second, but I've been flipping that way. My whole life like, oh, wait, yeah, let me do a backflip here instead of a front one and see how that kind of changes everything. Right.

Raul: 1:18:29

And it is, once again, referring back to the previous conversation that we had of realizing like, oh, this, I this, I've been doing this for so long that I think that that's how it's supposed to be. But no, you have a choice here. Yeah. Every time you respond that way, you feel that way. And you don't like when you feel that way. So when you come to that place, try something different, you know, and in talking with people, and how they deal with things, you might learn a different way of coping. And that's, that's one of the beauties of life and sharing experiences. It's like, oh, I didn't even think about reacting that way. Right. Right. And again, going back to my experience of just changing the story, don't go into as much detail and diminish the importance of all of the detail and just minimalize the the way that you speak about it, and you start putting less and less emotion into it. And to the point where just like, oh, yeah, that's that. That's not good for me, right? Yeah.

Siobhan: 1:19:43

Yeah. Well, it's like retraining yourself to put some distance in that feeling. And the further distance you can put in that feeling, sometimes the more healing it is because then you don't, it kind of goes back to that that. See that again, the more distance you put in, the more healing you put in there. was the feeling and the healing. But the distance that you can put into that feeling gives you more healing. Because it's like when you are

Raul: 1:20:08

different I'm gonna, I'm gonna fist bump you right there.

Unknown: 1:20:11

Thanks me, that's a t shirt.

Siobhan: 1:20:14

Because like, the first time I was assaulted, I like lived in that space. Actually, it's not true. The first time I was assaulted, I blocked it out of my brain forever and never spoke about it for a long time. And then when I was in therapy, one night, my therapist was asking me about something. And I started to tell her story. And I was like, halfway through it and stopped myself and was like, that's not true. Because this is actually the first time when we went through the story. And she was like, What is like, what happened there? And I was like, Well, I'm in therapy. And I'm supposed to be honest, like, I've never been honest about that story, because to talk about the assault is, is hard. And, you know, when you have something that hurts you like that. And when we first started talking about it, I was kind of very detached from it. And she's like, Well, you seem very matter of fact about it. I'm like, because there's so much distance. Like even though I haven't talked about it, I've kind of done that work in my brain to separate it all. I hadn't talked about it. So it was still in my body, though. So I could feel it when we were talking about it. And I was like, That's the feeling of that is what I haven't touched on, and I should get it out of my body with somebody different. But to say, like, I now know that that wasn't my fault. And it was this and it was that, but to have it to release it from my body took me a lot longer, right. And when I did, it was like, Okay, now I'm actually really free from that whole incident where it doesn't have the same power on me. And it's not an easy thing to do. And it's, you know, but there's almost no woman that I know, that hasn't been through that, or, or most women I know, it's been through that. Yeah, so and I think they've all kind of done that in their own way in time. But it's like giving yourself that distance, and not going into that every detail, I think is what gave me the freedom to also be detached from it. Because it hadn't defined who I was, it wasn't the story that I had told. So it wasn't the story that seemed like to hold true.

Raul: 1:22:05

Yeah. You're, you're you're really speaking right now on something that comes up a lot, in my practice, is trauma such as this, and how the emotional experience manifests as physical, holding physical pain, and being able to hold space for someone as we connect to that physical lock of the emotional experience of the trauma. And, you know, oftentimes, that is held near the Root Chakra. Physiologically, the root chakra is the NS, the chakra, two is the genital chakra. Three is the stomach, the gut. And this is where we just lock all of that stuff. So when I'm doing work, for example, on someone's tailbone, and just holding a space there, and you can feel their body start to quiver because they're reliving an experience and just being able to be present for that. And like I mentioned before, like the F bombs are the tears that need to come up to release that, and you feel the whole body just decompress. And it's such. It's so humbling, you know, to be there with someone as they're letting that experience go from their body. And to get the the review later saying, Wow, thank you for being there for that is I just love what I do. Yeah,

Siobhan: 1:24:03

well, that's what comes into being so much more than a body worker, you are a healer, because you're using different modalities. And you're not just doing massages, you're doing so much more. Yeah, it's not a routine. No. And it's tailored for each person and their injuries and what they're holding on to or what they're trying to release or what their. So you set an intention with someone. Yeah. What do you think is important?

Raul: 1:24:24

Yeah. And you know, in hearing you recount your experience, I already want to get you back on the table. If that's somewhere that you're willing to explore. I know you've done a lot of work on it already. But I feel like if we can invite your body to just let a little bit more go. Oh, yeah, I'm all about I'm it's a brighter day.

Siobhan: 1:24:44

Yeah, I have like mantras that I go through when I'm on a table. And when I'm like in the when I go to the banya and I'm doing like a sweat session. I have like little mantras that I do when I'm because I still kind of have terrible body dysmorphia. I had it when I was young, and then I, yeah, I and then when I got really heavy after, because I've lost, I mean, I was to something to 60 to 70 At my heaviest. And to, like, get that weight off and to try to get back into my body and feel. One, when you deal with chronic pain, you know, your body's never really all yours. But then to get back in it from all the different traumas and all of that, I have mantras that I do every morning when I put my lotion on for my body, and all of that I think has helped immensely. And I think all of that has helped me get healthier too, because you know, I've done the books, like the body keeps score, a body's not an apology, and there's a few other ones that, you know, have really helped me figure out like how to release that stuff. And where I keep it in my body and how to release that or how to stop storing stress in one part because it just adds more to it. Yeah, it's a lot of work.

Raul: 1:25:56

Are you comfortable sharing some of your mantras,

Siobhan: 1:25:59

I'm sure.

Raul: 1:26:02

Now I'm interviewing you.

Siobhan: 1:26:04

When I'm on the table, one of them is that I will like breathe in and think about white light, filling my body and clearing out all the bad and releasing. Now I'm going to have to think about how I say it in my brain. Like as I breathe out, I release all the physical manifestations of the emotional and physical traumas and stress that are holding on to my in my body. Yes, I take the lessons, and I leave the pain. Because I don't want to diminish those things that I've been through. And I don't want to it's kind of like what you said earlier as the theme of the pod keeps being like, things happen for a reason. They don't, but they do, but they don't. But can you find your reason? Like I find, I think I have found most of my reasons why things have happened. And I'm kind of okay with them. And so I don't want to diminish them. And plus, they all got me here, which I'm really happy about where I am in my life. So I don't want to say like I wish they didn't happen, I want to take those lessons, I want to remember the lessons, I want to take the the wisdom I have from all of that. And I want to release the rest of it. That's where that kind of comes from. In the mornings when I'm usually I call it oiling my body oil that I use over everything. And

Raul: 1:27:22

that's what I use for massage. I saw what you had in there. Yeah. And I

Siobhan: 1:27:25

say like with gratitude I love and pay attention to and thank every inch, millimeter centimeter cell cell wall, mitochondria, DNA and energy in between, for the way you carry me through the world and the way you keep getting stronger. So I say that if you do morning,

Raul: 1:27:45

thrill bumps. Yes,

Siobhan: 1:27:48

I feel kind of cheesy, sharing those, but they really have helped. And I explained to one of my friends about oiling in the morning and what I do. And so she started doing it because she was not feeling very safe in her body. And she was like, I didn't tell her my laundry because I was like you should come up with your own show. Yeah. But she has started doing it. And she said she feels a world of difference too. And when the last time I saw her the way she was moving through the room seemed different. And I hope that's part of why

Raul: 1:28:17

Yeah. And you know, referring back to the hidden messages in water, if you are reciting these things, as you're applying the lotion, all of this, this cells in your body are responding positively to that affirmation. Are you familiar with EFT or emotional freedom technique known as tapping, tapping, tapping, right, same thing you say these positive affirmations as you're sending that through your body. One mantra that I came up for myself actually happened while I was trying to traverse the Bay Bridge. And traffic was horrible. And there was just this one car that just just cut in and swiped, you know, swerve over. And I felt myself getting really heated. And then I caught myself as like, wait a minute, why am I so bothered by that? And the mantra just came to me like a white light. Thank you, dear driver for this opportunity to practice peace within myself. And as soon as I felt that, like I just let that shit go. Right. Thank you for this opportunity to practice peace within myself. And I use it often in many different situations, you know, and still, I still for some reason feel. I get heated when there's asshole drivers. And I have to remind myself, don't forget, practice, practice, practice peace. Be good. Do kind fans. Yeah. Yeah,

Siobhan: 1:29:57

I like that. That's beautiful.

Raul: 1:29:58

Thank you. There's my Other t shirt. Because most often I just want to give them the finger, you know that

Siobhan: 1:30:07

the car is the one place when I was like, really going through my shit and like, didn't know where to put some of my anger. That's where it would come out. I would be driving and it felt because it felt like the safest place. Yeah. You know, like I could have my music class and be driving down the street and I'd see someone and I would just let out a litany of like profanity, and like that person has to be the biggest Jackass for whatever reason. And then I would kind of be like, Thank you for letting me get my anger out.

Raul: 1:30:35

Same, same different

Siobhan: 1:30:37

words, you know, I'd be screaming and maybe they knew I was screaming at them or screaming at my dog and Bluetooth but like, you know, I wasn't causing road rage problems or like really giving that energy to someone else. But it was just kind of releasing it and I felt the safest way to do it.

Raul: 1:30:51

And to that credit there. One of the things that I often refer my clients to do is the primal scream of just pushing from the gut. And I refer to the movie Garden State. If you've ever seen that movie with Zach Braff, and Natalie Portman, they know it and they climb to the top of this cavern and just scream from their very core and it's so cathartic to let that go. So sometimes, especially when you're in your car because you're safe. Just let it out. Just fucking belt it. And afterwards, you might do an ugly cry, but you feel so much better.

Siobhan: 1:31:34

Did you ever watch dead to me on Netflix? No. Christina Applegate. And I'm not gonna remember the other week I almost said we just we just the other woman's name. But it's on Netflix and it's nominal. Yeah. in it. Christina Applegate is going through a bunch of stuff. And one of the ways she lets out her rage is she gets into her car and listens to death metal. Oh, and just scream

Raul: 1:32:00

or cry, okay, it's

Siobhan: 1:32:01

for her moment. Like, she like shares it with her friend. And she's like getting in and she blasts music and our friend looks at her and she's like, just give it a minute. And then by the end of it, they're both like screaming. Like, yes, that's what sometimes you need.

Raul: 1:32:14

Well, then that leads Have you ever heard of aggretsuko? What? aggretsuko? No. aggretsuko is the animation about this cat who works in HR. And whenever they start getting frustrated, they turn into this aggressive cat aggretsuko and they sing death metal. It's so good. Oh, yes. Yes. Shall we get some food?

Siobhan: 1:32:43

I think we should. I think we will leave it here for today. We given our mantras and T shirt ideas and hopefully we will inspire people to go find some joy. You've inspired me to find joy. Thank you. Thank you for spending time with us. Oh yeah. All right, y'all, you go find some joy relevant. I'm gonna go eat the next time