An Evening with Rory

  Welcome to the first of what will turn into a series of evenings with Rory. Rory and I met on the island and quickly become friends and have had some amazingly deep and moving conversations as well as taking the piss out of each other. He was so excited to come on and share the first chapter of his life with us. We didn’t have a plan or agenda when we sat down our conversation spans through his journey to the U.S. and what his immigrant experience has been like. His positivity, curiosity and raw honesty is inspiring and joyous. Enjoy and we’ll see you next time.  

Summary/Time Stamps: 

• Introduction to this week’s episode. 0:12
  • Welcome to the show, rory.
  • Favorite podcasts to listen to.
  • The art of storytelling in podcasting.
  • The core storytelling aspect of podcasting is important.
• The Library of Congress and Shana Key. 3:24
  • I npr has a feature in the morning.
  • The national congress.
  • The importance of storytelling in irish culture.
  • The role of a shana key.
• How to tell a good ghost story. 6:40
  • Good at telling a story.
  • Immigrant experience in the american version.
• How did you get to San Francisco? 9:13
  • Coming to san francisco at a young age.
  • Coming to the US at a time when it was easy to be illegal.
  • Moving to a new city and exploring a city at your own pace.
  • The homeless population in San Francisco.
• What’s changed in San Francisco over time. 15:21
  • San francisco reinvents itself during cycles of boom and bust.
  • Diversity and money.
  • Home is a part of him.
  • People are confused when he knows more about the city.
• How do you talk to people who don’t know you? 18:52
  • The initial impression people have on australia.
  • The challenges of being from australian.
• The hardest part of growing up in Ireland. 21:54
  • Hardest part of growing up in Ireland, sharing parliament with multiple people.
  • Making the decision to keep moving around the world.
  • Bought his first computer and thought it wouldn't work in Ireland.
  • Texas is the sixth-largest state in the world, according to the us
• What has changed about our country since 1985? 28:25
  • What has changed the biggest about the us
  • The story of how he became a citizen of the us.
• When I was living in London, I went back to London for six months. 31:17
  • Going back to London for six months.
  • Commuting to work on trains in London.
  • The dreary people all dressed for the horrible weather.
  • Getting out of jail card.
• What made going back to Ireland never an option after leaving? 34:18
  • How Ireland changed after he left.
  • How the Irish concept punches above its weight when it comes to the Irish e

Transcript

Siobhan: 0:12

All right, give me a little Hey, how are you so I can just make sure you're in a good spot.

Rory: 0:15

Hello. How's everybody doing?

Siobhan: 0:17

Oh, perfect. All right. Well, welcome to this week's episode of ducking reality. In the House this week. I got my man Rory, what's up, Rory.

Rory: 0:25

Hey, how's everybody doing that to be here? Well, a couple of times. But yeah, yeah, yeah. On someone's podcast. Yeah.

Siobhan: 0:32

I'm excited. You were super. I was asking Chuck, our guest of last week if he would be on and you were super excited to be like, I want to come in. I want to come on.

Rory: 0:40

Yeah, no, I mean, I love the concept of podcasts. And it's a new thing. We're not new anymore. But it's been, you know, it's relatively new. So, you know, I've listened to some great podcasts over the years myself.

Siobhan: 0:51

Yeah. Do you have a favorite?

Rory: 0:53

I listen to some I started podcasts, you know, like from archives like stuff that I knew growing up maybe you know, like from the National Broadcasting there, but then I scroll the scroll the internet for recommendations. And there's been a couple of gems I've uncovered. Remember the names of the No but some really good series. And there was obviously the you know, the classic famous one with with the whatsit, Adnan. SIADH.

Siobhan: 1:23

Oh, yeah. Serial serial,

Rory: 1:25

you know, so those were great.

Siobhan: 1:27

Did you listen to the s town one?

Rory: 1:28

Yes. S Tang was one of my favorites, right? That was absolutely brilliant. I recommend that to a whole bunch of people. Yeah. And not everybody knows about. And it's not everybody's everybody's taste. But when you get into it, boy, you get sucked into it. And that's classic, like storytelling podcast, and I love those kinds. But I'll go through a phase where I won't listen to one for nine months, and then suddenly, I'll be bored. And I'm like, I gotta find some new material. And I'll go digging around and they almost invariably find some stuff. Yeah, there was a really good one on Richard Simmons finding Richard Simmons. I love that one. That was totally cool. So you know, they're all very different. Yeah. But it's, I mean, I love the storytelling format. I mean, I'm a big reader. So I love reading a good book, getting into a good book, you know, you can't put it down. You can't wait to get the next chapter. Yeah. And some of the podcasts are like that they suck you in? Oh, yeah. And it's done. Right? You know, because it's, there's an art to it. And I think a lot of people started off doing it, you know, they were just kind of winging it. And then it evolved, you know, got its own form. And, you know, some are better than others. But, you know, some of the more basic ones, you know, that they give you information, or they tell a great story, and they don't have to be you don't have to be dressed up too much. I mean, you know, if you look at, say, you know, movie making documentary making, does a big undertaking, man are expensive, but you know, someone like yourself, no disrespect can put a podcast together, right, you know, with minimal exposure. Okay, and you can know, and I say that because, you know, you were doing in your house and you know, we're probably got you know, we don't have we don't have a proper studio, you know, the bigger productions, obviously, you know, they're, they're edited and they're, you know, they're fixed up and they have their video working. Yeah. And then they got some extra you know, like pieces to put but you know, the core storytelling aspect of it is doesn't need a lot right? It doesn't and you can come across some gems people got like interesting stories. He did. The other one is I NPR was has a feature in the morning and I have listed for a while the math radio or no, it's, it's, it's the National Congress, they go into the Congressional Record, the Library of Congress, so they have a different person every day telling, like it's, you know, three minutes story of their life. And there's some really cool stories in there. And all of them, they gather them up and put them on the library, Congress will be preserved forever. So it's like a slice of American life and different people's different life experiences. That's another great one. But that's when it's due on the radio, but they're just, you know, short and sweet ones, but you listen early in the morning, and it makes you, you know, sometimes you leave you leave it a thought or you and it makes you think about something later on the day, it comes back here. And that's that's the I think that's, you know, that's a good test of a of a podcast, if it makes you if it makes you think about something a little bit differently, or if it makes you pose a question.

Siobhan: 4:25

Yep, that's the whole purpose of this one is okay, well,

Rory: 4:29

maybe I should maybe I shouldn't be No, you know, I mean, that's my experience of a podcast and and I just love the concept and I think it's it's an under under appreciated I think you know, in the in the hierarchy of media wouldn't be like, you know, on the top right, close to the top, but don't further the pecking order but I think it's got, it's got its place, rightfully so, and, and it's not going anywhere because we it's just really neat, kind of an idea because we didn't have it before. We've always we've always had a storytelling tradition, right? And you know, where I grew up, as you can probably tell enough, right? You know, it's a great Irish storytelling tradition. And that's actually survived. Despite all of the modern media and everything else, there's was a character that would be in every village in town. And he was called a Shanna key and as a Gaelic word, and that was the storyteller. And that was before they had, you know, TVs or radios and electricity, and they would go to each other's houses in the evenings, and they would play music, and they would have food and they would, you know, socialize, but they were one of the features that night would be a Shana key would tell stories. And then there was a very revered person in the community. Right. And they still exist. No, no, very, you know, there's not many of them left. I think the last of the great ones have just recently passed away, you know, so it's, but yeah, but that's the, that's the storytelling art. Right? And that's, that's something that's always intrigued me as well.

Siobhan: 5:59

Yeah, maybe that's where I get my love of stories from is it was in my DNA, he was

Rory: 6:05

there, you know, it's definitely there. Because it's part of the fabric of, of Irish society always was and other parts of the world, you know, it'd be similar types of characters that play that role. But it was, it was a very important part of Irish. You know, preserving the language, preserving the storytelling, keeping the stories alive, keeping the culture alive. And it was by word of mouth, and that person had a very central role in it. And it was great to use the great entertainers as well. Yep. You know, and they wouldn't be people that would write books, they would just it was the art of storytelling in a verbal format. That was your that was the, that was the skill? Yeah,

Siobhan: 6:43

well, we can get whenever you have someone that's good at telling a story, you just want them to keep telling stories. Yeah,

Rory: 6:49

get sucked into as, like a good, you know, like, I had an experience where I took my kids off to a camp on a camping trip, right, you know, sitting on a campfire, and, and, and then they're, they're young or seven or eight year olds and their own, like, you know, I said, you know, can you tell us like a ghost story. And I try, and I try to be that, you know, I tried to put some limits on those nuances into it, and some of those kinds of phrases and, and settings. And, and I just made up the story or like, and it just came out of me, I don't think wow, and the kids are just, you know, because they're easy to impress, but whatever he did, they were just sitting there, like, you know, and they were scared when points. And then you know, we've took a trip a month or two later. And they're like, Contensis says a ghost stories like, hey, they actually liked my stuff. Yeah. So you know, that's, that's a similar kind of, you know, like you say it, it's in your, you just got to drag it out.

Siobhan: 7:41

Yeah. So tell us your story. Where are you from? And how did you end up here?

Rory: 7:46

Well, it's, it's, I think, I mean, I'm an immigrant, for all intents purposes, and vecchia. So yeah, I mean, there's no denying it, no, that accent, the accent, but but I didn't, you know, I had very much an immigrant experience, but it's a modern immigrant, immigrant experience, and, you know, and the American you know, sort of, in the American version of it, because, you know, this is a country that's 250 years old. And it's been populated by immigrants, since, you know, since they opened up basically for, you know, for trade and commerce and way back, and, and all the immigrants came from somewhere else, essentially, it was obviously the native population that really knows what happened to them afterwards. But, you know, they made way for all the immigrants and they all came from European countries and African countries and Asian countries, and, you know, it's a big massive melting pot, but that was a different eras that was, you know, a very different experience for a lot of people. And very hard for a lot of people. I mean, but a lot of people that came to this country came from, you know, very difficult situations, this was an opportunity to try something better. And, you know, there was definitely opportunities there and things were growing and expanding and, and there was a, you know, an energy here, I didn't have that type of experience, and a lot of them actually suffered very hard, you know, work very menial jobs, and, you know, took two or three generations to get any kind of a wealth base and to get established. So, you know, I didn't have that type of experience. I mean, I was a university educated and, you know, when I came to live here, I spent five years living in London before I came here, so I had some professional background and experience there. So when literally, I got off a plane on you know, let's say a Wednesday and I you know, scolded Roland and I had a job on a Monday and it was a professional job. So, you know, my experience wasn't so you came after you graduated college, so I didn't come directly African. Well, you went to London. Five years no, they came here. So I'd left Ireland five years previously and then I started my journey here. And and and was this

Siobhan: 9:48

your end spot?

Rory: 9:50

Was it

Siobhan: 9:50

my when you move to London? Did you know you're gonna come to America, I

Rory: 9:53

didn't want things were very fortunate as I got a green card while I was living in London, but it was part of a program And that was initiated by some Irish American senators. And their names are still kind of ring faint, like famous amongst the Irish community. One was a guy called Burman. I think he might have passed away. Just recently, there was another guy called Donnelly. Maybe it was him that passed away recently. But there was two or three different visas issued, okay. And it was a Morrison Burman, and a Donnelly. And what they were they were, they were all Irish American senators, that were trying to take care of their base, a big Irish voting bloc, and was one of those illegals in the US at the time, it was easy to be illegal, then you could freely move back and forth. You got all bank cards and stuff, everything got weird after like, 911 would shut all that down. And it really restricted the Irish illegal community.

Siobhan: 10:44

What year did you come here?

Rory: 10:45

So I came here on 9595 95. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, my experience was really easy in comparison to some people that have to, you know, hustle and you know, takes a long time to get established. And then I also had the benefit of, I mean, I was legal right away. And I had a decent amount of work experience behind me, so I could get a good professional job paying pretty well. And I came to San Francisco, and you know, what better place to come to at that at a young age I was in my late 20s. Right. So it was happening. And I had a boat, I'd say, maybe 50 people I knew, Oh, wow, from the town that I grew up in the city that I grew up in, from the university that I went to. And then I had a wider group of friends or friends of friends of that. So I probably knew 250 people off the bat that were from where I came, or friends of friends that were all living in San Francisco, and I had all descended on San Francisco, in the space of 18 months. Right? So and, and most of them were going through the same experience that I was going through where we found it easy to get work. And we had, you know, good disposable income. We were all sharing, you know, four of us living in apartments and shared apartments and hopping around and but it was just a really good energy at the time at San Cisco was buzzing back then as well. You know, it was a great music scene. It was kind of the end of the rave scene. And you noticed a lot of cool music in San Francisco, what are some steps that hadn't been taken over by the tech crew, and it was still a very artistic and vibrant place. And you know, at that age, it was it was just, it was a blast. It

Siobhan: 12:19

must have been wild. It

Rory: 12:20

was really good. Because I mean, literally, you know, I love moving to a new city. And I've been I've done a bit of travel over the years. But there's nothing better than exploring a city, like at your own pace, right when you're living in it and working in IT. And especially you go to a new city. And every every time you turn a corner, it's a new, it's a new street or a new alleyway. And Sam Cisco was like that. So I say for about two years, I just had this buzz all the time, and then eventually starting to settle down a little bit. But if it was very new for that length of time, and that's a good, that's a good you're gonna say it, it's a good, that's a great what's the word I'm looking for? That's a great way to I don't know, gauge the city. And Sam says just pass it with fun because it had all of that or not has it any more? I mean, it's done best of visit? No, I think I think so. You know, your average tourists come here. They think like, oh, wow, this is great. Everything's cool. But back then there was a different boss, and I just loved it. And it lasted for a long time didn't wear off. Right. You know, I think that's a really good testament to the

Siobhan: 13:25

city. Yeah, it is. I think now when you come the first thing that kind of slaps you in the face is the homelessness.

Rory: 13:31

That's very obvious. No, and it's unfortunate. And it's changed obviously, over the years wasn't that bad? Right? It's always there. Right. But I think there was a very, you know, there was a sort of a, you know, the homeless were kind of like bohemian, almost, they weren't, they weren't threatening, or they weren't really miserable. I mean, right now, I think that homeless are just miserable. But then there's a lot of drugs, yeah, you know, not fencing around and it's just, I want a math, I work in a nonprofit industry, you know, to help homeless people. And so I see a lot of it myself, but also still work in San Francisco and I take a scooter up market street every day. And, you know, go for about two or three miles on the main section of market. So you can there's two or three pockets where there's literally, you know, hundreds of homeless, just wandering around aimlessly, just complete zombies. And, you know, every efforts were made to be clean to clean it up, you know, has failed. And I think you know, from the time I got here, people have been talking about the homeless population. Oh, yeah, it's absolutely and it's not the thing but it's not just a San Francisco problem. Now LA has got a really bad problem California, Central Valley. He's got his problems was a national problem. Oh, yeah. Madison has its problem yeah, people beat up on San Francisco because it's bad I don't know what's bad and if we could do better but it's a national problem we get home was to come in from out of state Oh yeah. That want to be here because the benefits are good and you know it's a better claim it you know, me if I'm homeless, I want to live in, you know, San Diego or someplace like that. Right. I don't want to live in Minnesota. I wouldn't stay Name Francisco. But it's, I don't know, but it gives us have just got greedy edge to it. So another part of the puzzle, if you strip them or old and you just had never you had nothing but spotlessly clean streets and, you know, properly sanitized. walkways wouldn't be the same, right?

Siobhan: 15:21

It wouldn't have that same it does give it an edge. And he's been,

Rory: 15:25

you know, grinning grittiness, but but it can get, it can get, you know, it's been bad recently, but then with the COVID thing as well, ya know, that kind of messing things up for a lot of people and, but some school reinvents itself, and they've been through a couple of cycles in San Francisco already. You know, I've seen the first.com boom, and the second.com boom, and the housing market crash and, and all those things, you know, have big impacts and supersenses keeps bouncing back. Right. And no, you know, people talk about post COVID Nobody wants to work in the city anymore. And it's really quiet in there and I don't own it's just dead, is it? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's very noticeable, and there's a lot of restaurants are closed and, you know, sort of so again, if faced with it asked to reinvent itself. And I'm not sure what's going to morph into next. But one thing I'm sure is it'll it'll bounce back. Oh, yeah,

Siobhan: 16:11

it is. Well, the city is also filled with so many different types of people and creative people and tech people. And, you know, so that collaborations that happen for almost any project in the city is different than in other places, because there's so much diversity here.

Rory: 16:27

It still has that draw, and some sort of got money. Yeah, you know, the money's there and money bases there. It's always been there is old money there. So sometimes you're not going anywhere. It's gonna bounce back. Yeah. Yeah, but, but I've seen all those changes over the years. Well, that's been kind of interesting to watch on the sidelines. And, but, you know, I mean, I've been here since 95. So, you know, I've been here longer than anywhere else. And I think that there was one time maybe after I looked here for about four or five years, I left for a family visit back to Ireland, and I came back and usually fly into SFO and like, an evening time, on seven or eight o'clock, and I was at a car park in the airport, you know, open deck, roof car park, and I was looking across the skyline and, and it was about seven o'clock in the evening. And someone said, and I just said, you know, when I'm home, I come back, I said, you know, I'm actually home, I didn't think about anywhere else. This was my home. And you know, when you get that in your head, that's it right? It helps a lot. It does not get one when you get to that point, you cross over that bridge. And then I knew from there like that, was it. So you know, I've never had any desire to be anywhere else. It's great cities in the US, you know, to some great other destinations in the world. That, you know, I've thought about it on occasion. But there's something about living here that, you know, it's a part of me, and I'm a part of it, whether we like it or not. Yes. And and it's been a great ride. Everybody has, you know, I mean, I'm a bit older, no second can look back, I mean, histology about it? Yeah, for you just living it and doing it and not thinking about it, you know, not thinking about the journey or the stages of it. But I've definitely pondered a bit more in recent years that, you know, I've been here for a long time, I've seen a lot. And, you know, with memories that are quite dated, right? And I'm kind of like, Gee, I'm kind of a senior citizen. In fact, I know these things when I'm working with people. And you know, they're 20 years younger, we didn't didn't experience any of these things. Right. So, and they're native as well. Right? So you know, I've got that, that they don't have that that's kind of interesting to see that kind of dynamic work.

Siobhan: 18:31

Oh, yeah, that must be kind of fun. When you know more about a place than the people that are from here, you just have the eight

Rory: 18:36

haven't been on more than more than and then. And the thing about is people are confused when I know more than them. Because they automatically assume that I'm not from here. And they don't know how long I've been here. Because the thing that was my accent hasn't gone away, right? So at times, I probably sound like it just came here yesterday. And you know, if they don't know me, well, that could be their initial impression. And, and then they're shocked that they know so much.

Siobhan: 19:02

Like local history, and I'm just really good at maps,

Rory: 19:05

things like local sports, you know, I'm a big sports fan and up in you know, I got, I mean, I didn't watch or didn't have much contact with American sports before he came to live here. We live just a general sports fan of all types. So I had to, you know, figure out baseball, which I didn't know much about, or didn't know anything to start from the beginning. And baseball is complex. And you know, it takes a while to figure it out. And the nuances of it took me years. Yeah, I still don't know, you know, really scratching the surface. But still, you know, it got to a point where I understood the strategies and debate gene, but that's not very obvious on the surface, somebody who's kind of new so we know going back what I was saying earlier on, like, I can have conversations with people and I'll talk about you know, the Giants when they're a Candlestick Park and people don't walk Candlestick Park. Where's that? I don't think there are many, many times and I remember a lot of the players from that era, people Oh, you know, that person might call out. Right? Because I was here I lived it and participate in it.

Siobhan: 20:07

So does that ever get frustrating? Or is it just mostly fun?

Rory: 20:10

No. I mean, it's it's never. It's never. It's always well intended. But every now and again, somebody like should know better. And I'm kind of a, you know, it's not really. It's they said, it's never, it's never there's never any bad intentions around it. But I get people, sometimes they'll say it to me. Are you from Australia? And I have to go off with God's No, you got the wrong hemisphere, right? Like you got two hemispheres to choose, you chose that one southern hemisphere, and I like 24 hours flying away right from here, and I actually live 12 hours flying the other way. So you picked an audience as an African like me, oh, come on my accent not that like that at all. But that's just, you know, people that are just not tuned in. Generally, you know, the status and stereotypes, but Americans don't have complex accents. And they, they always have difficulty, you know, I mean, the classic one is people say, like, you know, are you English? And I have to say, you know, why?

Siobhan: 21:13

Do you sound classically Irish to me? Rosie, Dave, I don't know if you know. Yeah, but Rosie is from Australia. Yeah, she's from Australia. And a lot of times people always think she's from England.

Rory: 21:25

Yeah. And they're not. I mean, they're very distinct accent. Yeah. So it is, you know, it can be Yeah, you might be frustrating, but I never, I never take offense to it, you know, kind of gently remind people know, you got an horribly wrong. And that just kind of diffuses security wrong. Yeah, but it's always well intended.

Siobhan: 21:46

When you came out, was there anything that was like, I mean, it's you came out with a huge support system and like, kind of set well set to move to a new country. But what what what do you remember any of the hard parts?

Rory: 21:57

Um, you know, I think probably the hardest part was just as these are, these are normal, kind of growing up things is, you know, sharing Parliament's with multiple people and, you know, still do not have to cover that side of things. And, you know, a lot of moving around as people, you know, reshuffled. Like, you know, there wasn't, there wasn't too many downsides, because it was such a good boss the whole time, right, just carried everybody. Anyone that one of the things that I always kind of felt good about was, I kind of made the decision, like, many years before, to keep going, you know, different parts of the world or see where it would take me, right. So here I was, but it was no going back. It wasn't like a burn bridges or anything, but I just, I didn't, you know, leave a trail, right. And sometimes I was meeting people. So I'd already already five years ahead. And some of the people that were just starting out in their, you know, living away from Ireland experience as years ahead of them, because I've already been five years in London, and I love them, I love my time, they didn't want to stay there forever. But but, you know, here, I was just bounding ahead. And so a lot of my Irish friends, you know, they made the foolish kind of mistakes, and it's understandable, you know, they just gravitated towards Irish bars. And they hung around amongst themselves where I was just like, let me add it, you know, let me go legs ski, you know, snowboarding let me go hiking let me go, you know, camping and, and, you know, well, they were stalking bars all weekend, I was gone and you know, doing outdoor stuff and boning ahead and, you know, I still meet them for a couple of drinks late in a Sunday night or, you know, and so I would catch up on everything they've been doing, but I'd done all this cool stuff. And they just, you know, they didn't see it for what it was they kind of figured it out later. But I was way ahead in that respect. And that just made you know, I just loved that aspect of it as well. That was so cool. Because that's not stuff that I did typically growing up and it's all here on our doorstep especially like in Northern California, you know,

Siobhan: 23:57

well yeah, it sounds like you came in develop like fully dove into like the California

Rory: 24:02

I really did you know and I didn't let anybody get in my way I didn't you know, that people kind of discouraged me or you know, or RBBB kind of, you know, disparaging of my you know, my new lifestyle which by them seemed to be you know, that I was I was I don't know, like forgetting my roots or something No, I wasn't doing anything of the sort I was just take join what was in front of me that there was in front of them as well, but I was I just had, you know, like that's gonna do it where they were a lot more hesitant and you know, like some were friends like four or five years later, they were only suddenly starting to discover like Tao went up there and done it so many times at that point.

Siobhan: 24:41

You're giving them other places to go and not go Yeah,

Rory: 24:43

so you know, J rated the deep end and I didn't hold back and that was and that was great. And what really helped me a lot that was just under it's kind of similar. You know that what I was going back to what I was saying about like not leaving a trail or you know, not I like I said I didn't burn bridges, but it didn't leave a good, I just kind of deliberately didn't bother leaving a trail. Because it makes it easier to keep moving forward, if you always have these things to pull you back. And there was a friend of mine. I bought I bought a computer, my first computer, right? And so fancy IBM computer, I spent a ton of money on it, you know, which today like it would be 1/10 the cost, right? There was a really nice, and it wasn't an investment at the time, I think I put it on a on a purchase plan like, you know, so anyway, I, when I was somebody had heard all you bought a new computer like that, like the like, like, like, that's a quick observation. It was. And he said to me, it was just another Irish guy who I'd grown up with a close friend, and he said, you know, those plugs won't work in Ireland, right? The socket? Like that was his thinking, like, why would you play computer that won't work in Ireland, like, assuming I was gonna bring it back when I learned, right. I looked at him and I went, I didn't say it to him. But I said in my head, I said, that's the difference to me and him. He won't last he'll be gone for years, I'll be still here. Because that kind of thinking, you know, the always holding on, never really let him go. And like, you know, at that level for that kind of a purchase. It's like, that's told the story in itself. I always thought about it afterwards. You know, that was? That was the difference? It was little things. Yeah,

Siobhan: 26:24

the little it was a little things are really the big things when you think about it.

Rory: 26:28

I mean, it just it separated me from others that would you know, have that mentality because I was really small, you know, small, like picture thinking, right?

Siobhan: 26:36

I wonder, did he go back? Yes, he did. How many years did he last?

Rory: 26:40

We know you know what, interestingly, that's that same day. And I still in contact with him today and like and what on a WhatsApp group. He left, but didn't go back to Ireland. He went to live in Russia for a number of years. Oh, good number of years. I work in the oil industry. And then he ended up living in Texas. And he's still there. But like, you know, Texas, you might as well be living in other countries. And you know, failed state. lot a lot for you know, that's a nice another day's today's podcast.

Siobhan: 27:14

Is Texas enough to know no need to go there. I've drove through the top of it a couple of times. It's lots of Tumbleweed crosses and billboards.

Rory: 27:23

I say that in the context of you know, what's happening in the US political picture in the red versus blue? And, you know, gun owners versus no gun? Gun?

Siobhan: 27:38

Yeah, yeah.

Rory: 27:39

So, there's a lot of weird things going on right now. But that, you know, there's certain states that I have no desire to be in. And then the other thing is, we're fortunate that California, you know, San Francisco is a great place. But California itself is a great place. Yeah. So it's the most populated country or state in the US. But it's like the sixth, if it was ranked in the world, it'd be like the fifth or sixth biggest economy on its own right, which is mind blowing. Like,

Siobhan: 28:03

I think it might even be higher isn't it might even be

Rory: 28:05

higher, it goes up and down within that scale, right? Which is absolutely mind blowing. And is so influential in so much cool stuff comes out of your answer beautiful state as well. And it's liberal, you know, and it's progressive. So we have all those things. So that's another like, factor in where you know, this, this is the perfect place to hang your hat for a few years. And, you know, a few decades if you need it. Right, right. You know, you won't go wrong here. You really won't. And there's lots of opportunities as well, you know, so all those factors are still valid today, as they were when I came here in 1985, you know, yeah, hasn't changed.

Siobhan: 28:40

What do you think has changed the biggest about our country now? Because Are you a citizen now.

Rory: 28:46

So I'm a citizen, I became a citizen, not that as soon as I was, pretty much soon as I was eligible, yeah, when I came here, I had a green card, and the green card actually won in the lottery. So there's a story behind that I was telling you about some of the Irish senators put it up. So essentially, what they did was they put a boat, you know, at the end, it was C was for their own Irish American community, you know, generated a lot of goodwill. And, and they, you know, got a lot of votes out of it, I'm sure. And there's a big Irish American base in the US and there are strong electoral power. And you know, in presidential elections and Senate elections, they have they've they're strong lobby group in their own way, they carry a lot of weight. So you know, if there's senators get it, they want to remain friendly to them. And one of the things people, you know, there's a lot of illegals here, but they found a loophole somewhere in the records that are if people hadn't been given enough green cards, because us always taking the immigrants, right. But it was doing it in at that time in the 90s in a very, kind of a very rigid way of allocating to different countries around the world. And and it wasn't And so somebody found a loophole anyway that the Earth hadn't been fairly distributed their share in the previous decades, right. So they got a bill through Congress, you have to do catch up. And he basically issued about 50,000 a year to earn an Ireland's population, like 4 million people that time. So if you've got, you know, 200,000 young people emigrating every year, you know, 50,000 visas a year makes a big difference to that community. And I was in that's coming, I was just coming through in that way that actually started before I kind of left, you know, university. So, but, you know, you had a very high chance of getting one if you played for it, okay. And so you kind of had a one in three chance, you know, pretty decent odds. And all you to do was submit a piece of paper with a with a small application and put it in, put it in the pot, right? So why not sit and wait, you know, three, six months, and then you suddenly get a letter in the mail, I say, wow. And that's exactly what happened, but didn't just handed me I'm the everybody I knew, pretty much. Got it. Right. So they all had an option. Some didn't take it up, but a good few did. So. So that was the lottery as such, right? Wasn't you know, winning million dollars in the lottery, but it was a lottery. But it was a high chance of winning it. So but then you had to activate it within 18 months, okay. And in order to activate it, you have to visit, you could leave again. But you had to keep renewing it every 18 months to keep it alive. Right? Okay, so I came in activated. When I was living in London, I went back to London for about six months. And I was always coming back. But he didn't have an exact date and a good job there. And it was doing quite well to join myself. But I didn't want to stay there forever. And but I had that eating window. So I was like I could pick and choose kind of what I wanted to come back nice. And I was I was sitting or sitting in a want to live in London, I didn't have a car and a lot of be not very many people do because you just rely on public transport and a car is a burden. I couldn't afford a car anyway, it wasn't you know, we would have been expensive waiting to have and maintain. But the winters can be harsh there. And I was going into work one day, I was working for the railways in an accounting job. And I had to criss cross London on the trains. And everybody takes trains in London trains and buses. So you just it's just part of life. And my commute was like an hour every day on trains, you know, you sound a train, you read your newspaper, and you put your head down it was it was that kind of, you know, just very boring and just, you know, routine, right? But you just that was it. That's what we dealt with. And you know, the weather be would be nasty, but you just kind of wrap up and with your train and get on it and put your head down and read your newspaper and get your destination to your work, right, commuting. And it's one day and I was commuting to work. And I was standing on a really long concrete platform and a station just outside London, commuting into the city center. And it was just horrible black day, you know, black Scully, like black clothes and middle of winter, I can remember what one that was the say was like, you know, March or February or something. And I just said to myself, I looked around and I saw all the dreary people, all dressed for the horrible weather are getting on the dreary trains going into their offices. And I said, You know what, I could turn around right now on announced, I could go back to my apartment where I was living, I could gather up my stuff and how much stuff probably get it into two or three bags, right? And I could go straight to the airport. And I could get on a plane. And I could start my life. Today. I didn't do it. But the fact that I could write register with me, I proceeded to carry on on my journey, went into work in a boring office Saturday and looked at all the the English people that I was working with that were basically trapped in that universe. And I looked at every one of them, because we this big open kind of shared disk space that we were all working in. And I just thought oh my god, like it's no way I can do this for the rest of my life. But I said, there's really sad part was, I had to get out of jail card. Right? None of them did. None of them did. And I knew that. And I just felt bad for him. But I felt good for myself. And you know what it did? It gave me just enough energy to say, look, stay with your original plan, you've really got another three months to go and then you're out in the summertime. Right? And I did, and I waited it out. And then I left in the summertime and it was just perfect. But that day that was just a and then of course it came here you know, we've got fabulous weather and got you know, so much buzz and energy and newness and, and, and I'm much more kind of open minded society as well in London's great city, you know, the English are very rigid in their ways. And then the amount of people that I want, I mean, I like the English people. I like to have some great friends there. But it wasn't a place that was going to invest in you know, I wasn't going to invest years and years and years there. Right. There was no going back to Ireland. That was the that was the key thing. You know, I got left there there was no turning back. I love Ireland you know, it was great place to grow up and, and I loved all the time that I had there but no, I mean I that was it. You had to Keep moving,

Siobhan: 35:01

what made what makes you have to keep moving like what made going back never an option

Rory: 35:05

because people don't realize that it's actually very small place. I tell people sometimes and, and sometimes it doesn't register, but if you use something that a visual that they can relate to, because Ireland has an oversized reputation, relative to the size of the country, the size of the population, Irish people kind of, you know, the, the Irish concept punches above its weight, right? Because it carries abroad, you know, really well, because of all the immigrants who have gone before us right now. That's where the, you know, the big numbers are, but it's a country into some day to day basis. And it was a relatively poor country was going up. The Irish the boom, the Irish economy happened after I left, you know, maybe that's coincidence or losing me. But, you know, it really did take off, but it also changed dramatically as a, as a society. I mean, you know, the church didn't have as much control, it opened up to European influences. You had, you know, just whole flood of information coming in from satellite TV and people went on vacations abroad, you know, where they didn't before, there was more money coming to the country and, and the whole country just rapidly changed. And those immigrants came in and you know, and people stopped immigrating, immigrants came in, I mean, the whole demographic of Ireland changed after I left, I think you've got maybe 15% of people in Ireland, are of ethnic immigrant origin, right? A lot of Polish a lot of Romanians, a lot of Nigerian Brazilians, you know, because they were never there when I was growing up. And you rarely saw, you know, somebody off ethnic background, right, you might see an occasional trainee doctor and hospital or something like that. But it really was it was just, you know, one of the few remaining homogenous like races on the planet, it was like, awesome, Japan, right. And probably, yeah. So it was, well, that's what I that's the experience I had, it all changed after I left. But you know, in that, in that kind of, in that small, like, country, it still has that village mentality, you know, Dublin's metropolitan city, you know, you could kind of lose yourself there. Because I grew up, you know, it's the second biggest city, but it's got 250,000 people, no, I think I might have had 200,000 back then. Right? Everybody knew, yeah, you can literally walk down the main street, and you'd be 10 people in a space of like, five minutes that you knew, or you didn't want to know, you didn't want to see them. But that's, you know, you deployed them, it was that kind of place, you didn't have that anonymity, I believe in your business. Some people like that, I didn't particularly like cleaning anything, but it was just like that, you know, a bit of privacy and a bit of, you know, and the other thing is that, in that environment is much, much harder to try a new idea. or to you know, try even if it's a new hobby or something PvP, like, look at you, you know, look at your windsurfing, like, you know, getting ideas about yourself, right. So you noticed there's a hesitancy to, to talk because there is that village mentality of people always watching you looking over your shoulder that I never liked that aspect.

Siobhan: 38:08

You think that's why so many Irish are so sarcastic and like, self, not even self deprecating deprecating to others? Because that rhythm ballbusting comes from

Rory: 38:18

our you know, I think that's a bigger, it's a bigger psychological evaluation that, you know, I'm probably not qualified to, to figure out but I mean, I can comment on that a little while, but I'm just going back and just going back to the size of Ireland, Ireland, is the size of Contra Costa County. So I know anybody who's in listening in the, you know, Northern California region, right? Think of Contra Costa County. It takes two hours to drive the width of Contra Costa County, maybe three hours drive north. So that's our island. Wow. Right. And you and you don't think that you think all because it's got lots of music stars, and it's got some famous film stars and, and everybody knows the scenery. And, you know, and and everybody knows, you know, and people like the Irish, you know, we produce a lot of, you know, our fair share of, you know, sports people and musicians and write writers, you know, more some some arts more so than others. And that gives us, you know, it kind of distorts the size of the place, and the and the and the real output, right? So, yeah, we punch above our weight, but we're really not that, like significant when you think about it in the context of, you know, 400 million people in Europe, right, which is right on our doorstep. We seem to be like, always making noise to get attention, right, for such a small population and a small place. And, you know, that's for other reasons, you know, to probably discuss in another occasion, but but it is it is small in that sense. So little perspective, like I definitely wanted to keep moving and I wanted to get new experiences get out there and just see the world Yeah, travel and, and meet people you know, and wherever you go. Like I've always Ben, you know, I love meeting new people from a different culture, you know, I usually get I got those opportunities to work socially and, and I'm always interested in that. And you know, back then you wouldn't have got that nerd. There's just no way

Siobhan: 40:14

I ever there was a girl that came because growing up in Boston, there's a huge Irish population. And there was a girl who came to Boston and she lived when we were in probably, I think we were in high school juniors in high school, maybe she came to America, and she had been on a farm in Ireland. So it was early 90s. She was went to London first with her family, and she saw that her first black person, and she screamed when the person came around the corner because she thought they were dirty. And because she had never seen a black person. And so when the person walked, came walking by her, she just she, you know, was just kind of taken aback. And then she, she told us that story. We made fun of her for years, but she was just she was like, I had never I've heard she's like, but when you've never seen them non turning her she was like, I wasn't trying to be like an asshole chicken. When they came closer, I realized she's like, but when I first saw them, I was like, Oh, my God, what did they do for a living?

Rory: 41:07

It's, you know, it's not that long ago, when that was actually a thing. I mean, that was a legitimate thing. People just simply hadn't been exposed. Yeah, a lot. Most of Irish people had not been exposed. Yeah. Um, because there was just so few ethnic mixes there. And most people didn't travel.

Siobhan: 41:23

Yeah. And but for us, it's like kids from Boston, we were like, That's ridiculous. Like, she can't be serious. Oh, she can, she was completely serious. And our parents retold the story. And it was like a big kind of joke for years. But like, it was unbelievable. To us. Like, how do you not see a Blackface? How do you not, but when you're not from, and you don't have the population.

Rory: 41:43

So when I went to live in London, I used to go to London for summer holidays, like, it's common working for building sites getting saving up money from his school fees, or what happened, you know, we parties were pretty hard and some fun, but it's great place to be. So I've been getting a little taste of it from an even younger age, from when I actually finally left Ireland. But like you say, you know, like, for me going to London, first time when I was 17, or 18, it was like that, you know, I've never seen black people write a lot, you know, a lot of black people in, you know, like going a boss or something I would be led by somebody sitting right behind me, in front of me and a boss and I would be staring at the makeup of their hair. And, and I couldn't help, you know, just been kind of fascinated by it. Because again, I didn't I just didn't have the experience. When I went to London first a lot of Indian people that live in London, so I had difficulty, you know, remembering names, and then also remembering, remembering faces. Because, you know, I worked in big offices. So I might have, you know, 10 people of Indian origin on one floor, right, that I would be introduced. And, and I couldn't remember, like, sometimes I would forget his name and a face, because I didn't have the ability to form the facial image in my head to match the names. And I the exact same experience when it came to San Francisco, because I met a whole bunch of Asian people of you know, Chinese, Japanese Filipinos, and I couldn't distinguish. So I'd meet somebody, you know, some girl called Kathy in the, in the office and, and she would be, you know, a Chinese lady from like Hong Kong or, you know, Mainland China. And I would say, oh, you know, chat to her. And then the next day would pass from the corridor. And I couldn't remember was that the same person I spoke with yesterday? Because I hadn't formed the the visual. imprints weren't working for me, because I didn't have those. I didn't have the skill set. That is interesting. Took a while to get it.

Siobhan: 43:34

Yeah, that's something I would never have thought of.

Rory: 43:37

And you're not used to it. And you don't have because, because because you because what you do is you when you meet people, you you put down some markers, subconsciously, right. But you know, I wasn't doing that. Because I didn't know I didn't have the skill set. You have to build it up from from scratch. Yeah. And so I remember having that experience. And so yeah, I can totally relate.

Siobhan: 43:58

Yeah, I mean, by now I'm sure you don't have that same problem. No, no,

Rory: 44:02

I mean, knowing no, I'm a pro like I can tell. I can tell sometimes by looking at somebody, whether they're like whether they're gonna speak Mandarin or Chinese or, or, or Cantonese. I mean, literally, there's the you know, you find this you develop that little triggers and little signals and and you can distinguish people and of course, I can tell no, somebody's Filipino versus Japanese versus, but initially, no, yeah, I can't. Asian people just look the same to me.

Siobhan: 44:27

Similar. Yeah, I took a while. Yeah, I have a couple of friends that are different. They're Asian but have different Asian backgrounds. And I'm like, I don't know how to tell like, who's what and they're like, it's fine. I'm like, it feels an eye similar to like, you know, to tell if someone's like just African or black from here, or I have no, like, I don't know if it's because it's never something I've really paid attention to, or if it's because I just don't care. Like I don't care where you're from. Well, that's that's sometimes with Irish people there. So like, what Potter island you from and to me, like, it's my name is very Irish, a lot of people like, Oh, where are you from? I'm like Boston, like, oh, that's the same thing. And I'm like, it's not but okay, well,

Rory: 45:09

the really weird thing is in Ireland, and I mentioned how small it is. But we carve that up too. And there's like 32 Different companies, and I can tell whether somebody's from one county to another. And there's very, like, you know, your average person wouldn't have a clue. No way they would notice the distinctions people tell where somebody's from Carrie, or Lowe's, or Galway, or Donegal, but I can totally tell like very quickly. And I can zoom right in on it. Yeah, is that it's accents, his words, just phrases, it's mannerisms, all sorts of things you can just tell.

Siobhan: 45:47

Well, in Irish people are so they're not just proud to be Irish. They're proud to be from from there. Yes, their county and county is the best County and everyone

Rory: 45:57

from Cork, I can we call it the People's Republic of cork. And we like to think we're, you know, our own separate state, and this whole sporting stock behind that as well. And, you know, it's kind of regional pride thing. Right. But no, that's a that's a big thing there.

Siobhan: 46:10

Well, I wonder if that's why some of that comes from it's like, because Irish people are so identity from where they're from. So they want to know where everyone else is from. And that is something that like growing up when people started talking about that I just kind of zoned out because I'm like, it doesn't matter where you're from. It just matters who you are.

Rory: 46:27

I mean, that's an easy solution. Yeah, no, I mean, I think we're naturally curious. Yeah, I'm

Siobhan: 46:33

curious, but I don't think it's for me, it's never been, like a marker for what someone's gonna be.

Rory: 46:39

Fair enough. Yeah. But like, what I'll say is, I never have any hesitation in asking somebody. Oh, yeah. No, I don't either. Somebody took offense to that, then, you know, that's your problem. Yes, I've been no harm I, I'm always curious to know where somebody's and I love to find out what somebody's in what somebody's own path is or, or, you know, back because you do meet a lot of other immigrants here. And some of them are second generation. Some of them are first generation. I love meeting people that are recently arrived immigrants.

Siobhan: 47:07

Oh, yeah, no. And I'd love to learn about someone in their culture, I just don't think it has any bearing on if I'm going to like them as a person. You don't even like only Yes, that's what I mean by that, like, and so for me, like attaching where someone is from to their value? I don't because I don't pay attention to that, or I don't put any value on that until I know their story. I think maybe that's one of the reasons why I don't I haven't developed that skill of being able to tell different kinds of ethnicities apart so well, is it's not a part of my muscle that I've ever really cultivated. There's,

Rory: 47:39

I mean, I get rewarded all the time. When I when I do reach out, I ask somebody, what their background, because it disarms them usually. And they because they want to tell you, right, you know, the formalities of working with people, right. You know, you don't want to get too deep, but somebody but I don't mind asking. So, you know, what's your story? Do? You know? are you originally from? Poland? are you originally from, you know, Russia or the Philippines? You know, what's your story? I just, I was intrigued by it. Right. And I've traveled, you know, quite a bit in the world as well. And so I can kind of relate. Sometimes I meet somebody you know, who's like, from Laos, and I'm like, I've been there, you know, I can I can tell them, you know, like the Oh, yeah, I really love this particular village that was in the mountains they visit and they're like, wow, you know, that, you know, so it just, it's, it kind of softens things, you know, in terms of relations, it allows you to, there's a great story out there about a protocol I've worked with for about four years, a couple years ago, and actually polish grow. And really good at a job just like really intelligent and, and just a really hard worker. And I just really enjoyed working with him. So we got to know each other really well. And she had a daughter and her husband both polish, but she and she was getting some treatments for cancer continuously, right. And she told me the back drop to it. She was actually a Chernobyl, baby. Oh, shit, right. And so she was on the border with Ukraine where Chernobyl happened. And the winds that blew carried over into Poland. And at the time, they tried to shut the schools down, but didn't even know what it was right. And there was a there was a documentary, I just finished reading a book on the Chernobyl thing, which was made into a series ranch really good. It's kind of very dark. But I just read that book. That was the move the document was loosely based, right. And so I didn't know her history, but it came up in conversation and that totally like went oh my god, you know, it's shorter. The book I just finished reading and she's like, Oh, then she opened up started telling me and I think in her village, or where she was, she grew up in Poland in the northern part of Poland. Like 1/3 of the kids that she was in school with had died from

Siobhan: 50:00

First, exposure exposure.

Rory: 50:03

Wow. And she'd been, she'd been fighting it ever since. And, you know, one tumor after another, keeping it in check, just fighting a tough fight and keep kept on going and still, you know, managing everything. And she was just living with Kansas living with a basically continuously, but we came directly from that. And then you think of that world, as I remember, I was about 18 When that happened, and it was maybe 16 I remember watching it on TV going, what are the implications here? You know, we're all we're already over, you know, the westernmost part of, of Europe, right? You know, and literally people going, like, we all depends which way the winds blow. And there was some radioactive dust turning up in, you know, Wales and place and sheep, and I don't think anything ever, like, gotta find its way into the Irish ecosystem. But you know, it was strong enough Windsor could have, right, but she just, she was right, in the, in the, in the, what we mean, was the winds that blew the radioactive stuff. Because she was, you know, hundreds 100 miles away, but in another country, and, you know, side story completely, just know that those kind of experiences, you know, if you open up with somebody, you can learn how you learn, and the stuff that you're really interested in, or, but it just another amazing life experience, right? Just all or nothing, right? Just a casual conversation with somebody in office, they could just pass it off and say, you know, well, just another Polish person, you know,

Siobhan: 51:24

right, or just another person with cancer or something

Rory: 51:26

like that. Yeah. But yeah, so that's just a little side story.

Siobhan: 51:30

Yeah, no, I mean, that's the whole point of podcasts are side stories and tangents, because I think those are the moments like you said, like, when you find something that you are slightly interested in, or you show like curiosity, and someone shares parts of their story, and then that's something that sticks with you and changes kind of your worldview. Totally. Yeah.

Rory: 51:48

I mean, you know, we were just working in office together, right. But, you know, you're doing the job, but you're also broadening your horizons, you know, you're just like learning new things or, or revisiting old events. That no has a modern kind of bearing, you know, as you see the, you know, the end result of a historical event that happened a long time ago, right, but there's still ramifications to it, you know, in real person, you know, the near life experience right in front of you. So that was kind of very interesting. I thought,

Siobhan: 52:16

yeah, and that's what that's one of my favorite things about casual conversations that turned into serious shit. Because it is, it's like those little moments are the and that's what we said earlier, it's like, it's the little moments that really are the big things in life. Because it's those little moments that give you a memory that you'll never forget. And a connection to the Chernobyl thing that's way more deeper than any book or documentary that you see or anything like that, because it has that personal touch to

Rory: 52:43

her. She was right through the lived experience right in front of me working beside me, right.

Siobhan: 52:47

And it gives you like, no excuse on a day when you're like, Fuck this, I don't want to do anything.

Rory: 52:51

And I pude admiration for that person. Because, you know, she had a daughter, she had a husband, she was doing really well and career and, and, you know, she just kept on going with all those awful ailments that she had, which is nothing, you know, she didn't make any bad luck choices, right? She just got slammed with some, you know, being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But yes, tremendous energy, just keep going and being, you know, a survivor, right? Yeah,

Siobhan: 53:15

it's always hilarious to me, those people that take that terrible thing that happened to them that they had no control over. And for all intents and purposes, purposes, don't let it affect their life at all.

Rory: 53:28

That's six, amazing strength and willpower. And you've given me a lot of people that have so much going for them. And they just, you know, whinge and moan and bitch and complain, and are always comparing and, you know, when it comes down to it, you know, we have so much to be grateful for all like all of us, I think, and, you know, some people are struggling, a lot of people have struggled or struggling, but whatever successes I have, or whatever, you know, good luck I've had, you should never forget it, you know, you should always be conscious of the fact that you want to the lucky people, and you hope that it will continue, of course, but be you know, be nice, be kind to others, and, you know, be remembered that not everybody's doing as well, or, you know, there's a lot of people struggling out there. And if you can find some way to give something back and help. I think that's really important as well, you know, successes in life are not, you know, measured in how many cars you have on the hoses you have, or you know, how many rabbits holidays you have? No, no, I mean, those are nice things to have. But I think that, you know, a measure of success is how many people you can actually help or only the good you can influence or, you know, leave some longer legacy. And I'm not just saying that no, because I'm getting older, like, I've always felt that way. You I'm a firm believer in giving way more than you get back. And if everybody else that follows philosophy, that'll be a fantastic world we live in, right. But I don't want to I don't want to be that I don't want to be just a taker. Yeah, I want that. I want that. I want the scales to always take. We're giving away more than I'm getting back. And I think that's an it served me well.

Siobhan: 55:01

Where did you learn that for something? Or do you think it was just innate in you?

Rory: 55:04

I think it's I think it's just innate. Maybe I saw it along the way. You know, I mean, like, I've I come from, like, my mom was very into, like, community work, right. My mom actually became a mayor of a city. Oh, wow. Not Cork city.

Siobhan: 55:17

That's a huge deal.

Rory: 55:18

It sounds like it is. It is the only one I don't understand it. But um, you know, she was a community worker. And she ran for city council. It was, you know, it was like, it's, they're not huge decision makers, but it still has a lot of prestige. So sort of it but yeah, if you serve your time long enough, so she served in the city council for many, many years, I was very involved in just community development, community organizations and charities and everything else. And she was good. And she would actually join us. She just just taught people person always continued. And those kinds of politicians do like local political work. They're always helping somebody get a grant or somebody getting, you know, getting their pension stopped coming in, they'll call you know, somebody higher up and fix things. fixers. So she was like that. But then, if you stay long enough, they do a kind of a rotation. And so her turn came off, basically. And she gets it for a year. So she was the mayor call for a year. That's still pretty cool. But it's a really cool thing. Because that's, you know, that's that's you can never take that away from her. She was a mayor of a of a decent sized city. And she actually came with a delegation to San Francisco is the mayor while I was here. Yeah. And so I wouldn't City Hall and there's my mom, with the mayor of San Francisco and all the dignitaries. Yeah. Amazing. Lady trippy. Like to see this actually happened. She's retired. No, but yeah, she had that phase. And she was looking really into politics, and she was a mayor. But going back to what you were saying, like she had that just couldn't stop energy of always giving things to people. And I came from a fairly big family that was like seven kids. And our house was just, you know, an open door. There was just constantly people wandering in and looking for something or other. And she was just she was in everybody's business. I don't want to be that like that. But, but that was the those were the kind of seeds that were planted. Right. Right. So I saw all of that. And it did register to kind of, you know, definitely have like an impact. I would say subconsciously that, you know, I like to do, I like to do little side things for people. Not, you know, drawing attention to it. But I'm always kind of doing little things for people. And I think that goes to my philosophy of giving more than you get back. Right. And if that's a good balance to have,

Siobhan: 57:32

it is yeah, I feel the same way. And I think I got that from the similar my like my grandmother. She had eight kids, but her door was never closed. Yeah. And my cousins, or my mom's cousins, were always staying at her house and other people would be staying my cousin Cliff would show up. He's technically my mom's cousin. But he would show up with like three of his friends because they were out in the city and ended up staying at her house. And, you know, it was always an open door policy. And it was always her doing and giving and Yeah. And it was always just everyone loved her. And it was just like, oh, well, that's just what you do kind of thing. Yeah. You're almost raised in it. Yeah. That's funny. She's still in Ireland.

Rory: 58:11

She's still learning. Yeah, she came to visit me about a year ago. And I think it might be your last visit, you know, just because they're just there. They're older. And they're, you know, they've done it many times. They've come here a bunch of times, my dad is still around, and he's he just doesn't, you know, he doesn't move as well.

Siobhan: 58:26

What's the long flight,

Rory: 58:27

the flight is longer, and they just stay. But they've done it plenty times here that, you know, they've they've seen this place four or five times? I don't think I'll see too much of them coming out here anymore.

Siobhan: 58:37

How often do you go back?

Rory: 58:38

I'll go back once a year. But I go back once a year, primarily because I've got a daughter who's 10. And so I want to take her back, hang out with her cousins, meet her uncles and aunts and you know, have that Irish experience as much as possible. And she loves it. I mean, it's you know, it's a great trip for her. And she's a novelty there. Of course when she goes with the kids that are arranged tons of nieces and nephews.

Siobhan: 59:01

Well, yeah, if you're one of seven, yeah, I'll have big

Rory: 59:05

flock there. Like she just gets thrown in the mix. And it's good for me to see my siblings want to go back. So I make a point every two weeks every year, 10 days, two weeks. It's on the calendar. I need to go in the summertime or I might go around Christmas every few years as well.

Siobhan: 59:19

Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Do you do most of your siblings to live in Ireland, it's all of

Rory: 59:23

them live there. They didn't always I actually had a brother lived here as well. Oh, nice. Who's a nice, very close brother. Like he's only like 10, nine months older than me. So he's like an Irish twin and ever since. And he was actually here six months, six months before we got here. And so he lives in San Francisco with the San Francisco experience with me as well. And of course, he had all his friends, which were also my friends. So it just, you know, he's a huge, big like pot of people all the time. He lives in some sort of four or five years. And then he moved to San Diego for a boat. I want to say eight years, 10 years, and then he moved back to Ireland. And then he came back to New Jersey for a couple of years. And then you know, he's moved back around again. No, he's staying around. Okay. Yeah. So he's back there permanently. I'm the only one that knows where I had a brother who lived in Australia for about seven or eight years. He moved back, and he's now living in Ireland. And a brother lived in France for a few years, and he moved back in, he's now living in Ireland. So I'm the only one that's

Siobhan: 1:00:20

and you don't you don't think you'd go back to retire or anything like that, either?

Rory: 1:00:23

No, no, no, I mean, I, I think that, you know, in a perfect world, if I was like super cashed up, or something, I would like have a little holiday home there for you know, a month or two, and then someplace in Mexico and someplace in California, you know, it's probably not gonna be viable, but who knows. But no, not pertinent on a permanent basis. I couldn't live there on a permanent basis, the walls were started closing me pretty fast. Yeah. And my brother, my younger brother, who lives in Australia, he went, he went back after about seven years in Australia, he was living in Sydney, and Sydney is a similar kind of city to exam, Cisco, it's on the course, it's, you know, modern city is full of like energy. And it's a really cool place. I've been there once before, fabulous place to be. When you're very far away from everything when you're living in Australia, so we only only big drawback. And, you know, I know, he just ran out of patience with it. I think in the end, he just after seven years, good innings, he went back around, but it's very hard for him to go back and make the adjustment. And he was struggling with it, you know, for a few months. And I think my mom kind of said, you know, you need to go see somebody and have a chat about it. And that's not we weren't raised that way, either. So he finally agreed and went down to see there was just a family general practitioner, you know, as a starting point, right. And this guy was a very wise kind of general practitioner. And he's seen a lot of people look at similar dilemmas where they're just not adjusting very well. And, you know, but he's, you know, but he's also going to check in for other things, you know, maybe depression or anxiety, or it might be, you know, some other illness, you know, you know, there's so many different things that somebody could have that would be, you know, there'd be a little bit off as a result of it. And his diagnosis was that he's suffering from a severe case of being pissed off. And it was, and it was the pissed off returning immigrant experience. That's what He classified it as, and he was absolutely right. But the good thing was, you know, when he diagnose them, we need to know what's wrong with him, right. And he knew as well himself, and he just had to put, you know, pull up his pants and get busy, right? And then deal with it, you know, and get on with it. And he did. But that was the clinical diagnosis, which I thought was just really, you know, really cute.

Siobhan: 1:02:32

I like that. Yeah,

Rory: 1:02:33

he's just suffering from a case of being pissed off. But that was a hard adjustment. You know, you think about it. He's been seven years in a place like Australia, and suddenly got back into Irish society, Irish weather, you know, dark winters dark at three o'clock, and it's cold. And when it rains 200 days of the year, you know, I should be selling the place. It's been brutally honest. That's the lived experience. Right? So you know, you've got beautiful scenery and but you know, beautiful scenery is no good. If it's pouring rain, right? It's just

Siobhan: 1:03:04

there's a lot of adjusting to San Francisco the last two weeks.

Rory: 1:03:08

We've had a dose of it right. And I shouldn't I should be able to deal with the blame. I'm pissed off. I'm miserable. I'm like, No, this has got to stop. Even though we love the water. We want the water. Yeah. But it's almost like a flashback for me. I'm thinking this is why I was like,

Siobhan: 1:03:21

oh, yeah, I've been it's been so cold. Not I mean, relatively so cold, because you know, but like, I complain, and people are like, aren't you from Boston, like, yes, they don't live there for a reason. I don't want to be cold. That's why I moved here. I hate the cold, they don't like the rain, even though we need it. I used to love the rain, but makes my body hurt more now. So it's not. So people often ask me what my favorite part of Ireland is. And I was like, I don't know, because I haven't been there yet. And I will go eventually. But one of the things I want to make sure I go in the summer, so I have the best chance of it being beautiful for as many days as party, you know,

Rory: 1:03:57

art is one of those places. Sometimes too, though, you just cannot predict it. And but the one thing I would say and I you know, not just to you, but anybody might be listening is art is a wonderful place to visit. And because I'm from there, I've been asked many, many times, oh, when would you suggest we go? Or where would you like to think we should go? Or how should we structure a trip? And I've got my own little formula that I recommend to people and it's worked like a lot of times Okay, and then you know the proof of that as people come back to me and say, Oh my God, you were so right, you sent us to the exactly the right spots and everything you told us about skip this or go there or or if you have this decision to make make this one that it generally works nice. And I tell people just go on a loop. Because you know the size of Ireland like I said, it's way smaller people imagine you can still do a decent tour of three quarters of the country. Okay, you might have skipped Northern Ireland. If you take in Northern Ireland, then you have to kind of do you know, might have dropped a few other places. Right and I'm talking about in a 10 day, two weeks sort of window right okay, passengers rentacar notes We're expensive right now and last couple years just went insane after Corbett so maybe that's not an option anymore. But that's what I used to tell people get the car and drive around. So you get your own mobility and stay in bed and breakfast what they call a bed and breakfast, right which are, they're not like the old star Bed and Breakfast, they're really modern family homes that are converted, and they'll keep guests but you know, wonderful kitchen and wonderful food. And they're all on a, on a on a on a really a system where they're all tapping into the same database where they can pass you on to the next time when you're going on to that they'll set it up for you at a time and they know the availabilities and, and it's very reasonably priced, like way cheaper in hotel rooms, but as good as and you get sitting you know, in a in a nice kind of an open space and have, you know, a family breakfast, the family won't necessarily be there. But you could be you know, two or three other guests there. And it's just and you'll, you'll get like family sort of food, and then you'll be on your way to the next part of the adventure. So that's great thing to do. And then you could take in a lot of things in that in that kind of, you know, loop that you would need to do. Yeah, you can take in some of the bigger cities, but don't spend too long in there, really get out to the West Coast and come down the coast and see, you know, Claire, and Carrie in Galway, and West Cork and all these places, and you can get lost, you can then you know, stop in a cool little fishing village and stay there for the night. Right? If you like it, you can skip the next town and stay another night, you know, there's a traditional Irish music session and evening, you want to stay for that cool, great, you know, so you have all these options. There's lots of festivals on summer, you can kind of skip around from Festival, the festival. And the weather is a factor, right. But a lot of is done indoors. So if it's not great, you can still just get your destination and see what you need to see. And then just get indoors and you know, have a few beers somewhere, you know, have a nice meal somewhere. The food quality's like gone way off, since I left was long time ago. But you know, back then it was very dry and bland. But no, there's just really exotic restaurants and just great artists, God's only like culinary reputation, which had never had before. There's a Tom Tim, well, that's a crock city where I grew up called Kinsale. And it's like, off the charts. I mean, there's so many phenomenal, like highly rated restaurants that are in this small little space. And it's a fishing village, essentially kind of sailing center. And it's like 10 miles or so Cork city, you don't even pay much attention to I was growing up, I go there, but I didn't know. But no, it's just like on the map and everybody, and rightly so it's a cool place to visit. So you know, I'd tell people to go there, you must go there, you know, I'm not going to voice helps, you know, force it, where people sort of stick to those kind of guidelines, and you can get a great holiday and and the thing is I always say the things that you imagine your head if you've never been there before it like you have this idea of this lovely, scenic, lush green fields and very, you know, beautiful cliff sides. Yeah, that's all there. That's what it is like, you can't help but you can you basically like it can, you'd have to close your eyes and wear a blindfold, two weeks not to see I mean, it's just right in front of you, right. And so, you know, most people can then check that box right away, but they're immersed in it, right? Whether they like it or not, but they do like it cuz that's what they wanted to see. Right? So you're already checking all these boxes in your imaginary list of things that you want to see in the country. It's there, and I can just there's heaps of it. So is this the summary, you know, it's a great holiday. And it's doable. It's kind of expensive. It's not super cheap. But it's it's getting good value for money. If you if you do it right, and you pack all the things in, I think that it would be kind of a place where to go. That was a really neat holiday. And you're one of my better ones. Right? So I recommend on that basis. Absolutely. But then the best time to go there. I actually think the best one it was late summer, September, October, okay. It's off peak days down a little bit. And these days, you get an extended summer because of whatever reasons with the climate and everything has been a pattern of getting more extended summers. And it stays bright under 10 or 11 o'clock in the evening. Oh, wow. Because you're free north, right. And so the sun doesn't get until way later. So it's a very long stretch in the in the day in the evening. And those evenings are really nice, especially if you've got extended summer and you've got sunny days, and it stays bright till 1011 There's something magic about it. So that's the best time to go.

Siobhan: 1:09:17

All right. It sounds magical. Wow. I'm going to add that to my next set of trips, I think.

Rory: 1:09:25

Yeah. Recommended. I mean, it'll it won't disappoint, right?

Siobhan: 1:09:28

Yeah. No, and I never thought it would. Part of me wants to ask you if you think you can just leave out Northern Ireland because of the history.

Rory: 1:09:35

Well, you know, if you come from art and you always get asked to somewhere in some shape or form, right, yeah, I

Siobhan: 1:09:40

figured I have to ask. It's okay.

Rory: 1:09:41

I mean, I don't mind that. Yeah, you know, it's almost like a chosen subject of mine. I mean, I mean, I know a lot about it. I mean, I'm I'm a big I'm a big pile of politics follower and history follower, not just my own history and the politics of Ireland. But you know, wherever I go, it's a it's a subject that I'm always interested in. You know, I'm fascinated by A the whole, you know, the dynamics of, of politics as it exists in different countries and, and you know how they rub up against each other when we have conflicts and all sorts of stuff. Because you know, human beings are far from perfect and, and even in that small confines of an island like Ireland, like we had really bad mess on our hands for 30 years, when I was growing up, it was, you know, in the middle of the whole thing, it was ongoing, and, and it was ugly, but I never, this is the thing that what people don't understand as well. I grew up in the South. And so you know, if you think of a map of Ireland, Northern Ireland on the top, so it's really about a quarter the size of the country, the other three quarters is the Republic in the south. And in the Republic, there was no trouble. We didn't have it spilling over the border, it was just contained in Northern Ireland. No, they did a good job securing the border and not, you know, letting it come the troubles kind of come in to the south, right. And that wasn't easy to do, because it did spill over every now and again, because the borders were very porous. But it was very much contained in hotspots in Northern Ireland itself. And those were all places to live in. But you would you were it was always ever present because it was on the TV, it was on the newspapers, and you couldn't look away and not see it. Right. It's just right there in front of you. And it was very live for us in the South. Because, you know, we saw the Catholic community in the north being being victimized and you know, marginalized for years and years and years. And it all start you know, the trouble is kind of reignited during basic civil rights protests in the 60s, late 60s, which was happening all over the world. So they caught that flame and, and then there was you know, then it blew up from there. But it was two communities at war forever. And it was and the soldiers and the British were caught in the middle of it, and every was killing everybody. And it was just really ugly and just nasty. And there was some of them were awful atrocities. And it was just everyday it was martyrs every day, there was some another soldier killed every day and under will be traveling to off every day, it was like some kid was, you know, caught in crossfire. And it was just constant constant coming from the south. When I went to live in London, the troubles was still happening. So I actually have my first experience of, of being targeted for selective. What's the word we use here? And it's another term for like for, you know, like screening. It's

Siobhan: 1:12:21

yeah,

Rory: 1:12:22

we will be like for, you know, for Muslims in us, we're not going to borrow, profiling, right racial profiling. And so I was, you know, 21 years old, fresh face, passing through Heathrow on a plane or getting off a ferry into Swansea. They would let 300 people pass through and every time I get pulled, and I knew it didn't matter whether I wore a suit, when I wore jeans, I would be pulled off questioning by some my five mi six Special Branch dude. And we would just go and you'd ask you a few questions. And he'd say why and do anything? What do you want to know? Right? I just shut my mouth. And I just said answer the questions got on my way. But what was his criteria? Because it was harsh. And I was young. And I was in that, you know, potentially could be one of those sleeper persons that was you know, and I was coming because I was coming from the south. You know, I wasn't going to the north. But there was you know, it did I mean it was it was a huge alert in the UK because it was bombs going off in UK in London in particular. So it was a massive intelligence operation it the tentacles extended that far, where I'm getting racially profiled at an airport. It always I never forgot it didn't register with me at the time. And I'm like, This is bullshit. But you know what I'm gonna say or do right? I'm gonna cause you trouble. Just

Siobhan: 1:13:45

you think you just look that Irish though? Well,

Rory: 1:13:48

I'm getting off a plane coming from Ireland.

Siobhan: 1:13:50

Oh, yeah. Oh, every time you got off the plane, I wasn't sorry. Yeah,

Rory: 1:13:53

no, I do. But they didn't know that was my age profile. As you know, like if it was in, if it was an elderly person probably wouldn't get pulled as easily. But no, it was automatic. And it's like, it didn't matter how we dress with a dress and a nice fancy suit or, you know, nice. You know, if I had a big jacket on like, that doesn't matter. I'm just getting pulled them out of what? And they would pull up but it's always going to be me. Yeah. And that's why I went on for years. So that but that's just a small byproduct of that association with Northern Ireland. And I've been to I was in Northern Ireland couple times. Like when I was in college, I'd go play soccer up there. But it was weird. I mean, you go across the border on a train, and you get to Belfast, and then suddenly we're in the south and like you see, like just soldiers everywhere and you see armored personnel carriers, there's helicopters in the air, and there's people with like big long guns and Tenez and radios and snipers, walking with snipers. So you're walking down the street and you can't go like just let's go for a drink here or translaminar or late right? We actually made that mistake. We wandered into Barnes like this is not a Catholic Barnes GET THE FUCK. Because we know people were just like, wow, this is way too weird. This is about If the train station Yeah, yeah. And then you could leave a bag down on attended like massive security automatically like dogs and people come in like, you got that shit, you know, get it over. So it was just a tense place. So you know, we were conscious of it and and it was sad, you know like there was just held not just northern back but held the south back as well. So when they figured out Oh eventually, and this is the 25th anniversary of the peace accord. Oh, is it really this? They're celebrating it at the moment like literally it's run with the same z because it's Easter. Yes, it was the Good Friday Agreement, which is today is the 25th anniversary of it. So a huge milestone, that was a huge success, getting that piece in place. Now, there's been a couple of ripples afterwards, it's never fully solved, right. But I mean, in terms of they just stopped all that killing and maiming and craziness, right. I went to Belfast a year ago, for the first time since I did as a student, like 30 years ago, let's say yeah. And I took my daughter and I was traveling around and I was kind of on the note I was kind of a little bit north of where it was a it was like I was coming back from my uncle has lives kind of Midlands, like in a place called Malinga. But it's really only about an hour and a half to get across the border of Northern Ireland in Belfast, or 3040 minutes, right. And I said, my girl from my little girl is like a big Titanic fan. And I said to Scott Bell has got an amazing Titanic Museum. That's where the Titanic was built, you know, that hardened wolf shipyard? That was the big industry back then. And, and it's a it's like a famous, or it's really successful exhibit they have there. So I just said, I don't have to be any particular tomorrow. Let's just go there. And they did. And we just pointed a car on and I went there and I got my phone and they made a reservation. I got a hotel. I can do this stuff. No, great. Let's do it. Me and her went there. And we want we walked around Belfast a little bit, you know, mainly that area where that is but I was just absorbing I was I was driving in and out and like what a difference to when I was there. 30 years ago. I didn't stay I stayed that night. I left the next day. But I wanted to come back and do some more. Right hanging around there. So next time I go back there, I'm gonna go off after like two or three days. Yeah. What a cool city and what a good vibe there. But compared to the dark days, oh my gosh, no, it's just, there's still problems there. I mean, it's still divides, right? They still have communities that are separated by 20 foot piece walls. That's crazy. But they don't, you know, throw stuff over top. And that's Catholic, Protestant, with tribal units pretty title. But the younger generation are so much better now. They've grown up without it. And they don't they don't want it. You know? So some people stirring up trouble, but it's,

Siobhan: 1:17:37

yeah, it's, well, you're always gonna have those outliers that don't want things to change.

Rory: 1:17:41

Yeah, but it was bad. It was really bad at the time. When I first came to San Francisco. I was playing a lot of Gaelic football in San Francisco. There's a bunch of Irish football teams in San Francisco and they got their own league.

Siobhan: 1:17:52

Is that rugby? No? Football,

Rory: 1:17:54

it's Irish football.

Siobhan: 1:17:55

It's it's so it's not soccer. It's not rugby. It's okay. I did not know there was a Gaelic football, hurling hurling I've heard of Yeah,

Rory: 1:18:04

so do football was one of my main sports. But because I played for a few years it sounds it's gonna be Sam Cisco leagues. But I play for a club called the Ulster club and Ulster is, you know, the geography, like Ulster is a province, but it's a province in Northern Ireland. That was the old mark like markings they had. So there's parks, there's three counties there in Ulster that are not in Northern Ireland. Right. So it's kind of weird. It's an old grouping, but it's relevant to today, but Northern Ireland has actually only got six of those nine counties. So anyway, I played for a team called the Ulster club. So that's all guys in the north of Ireland. And we were training up in badboy park in the city, we train on a Wednesday night, we don't kick around and in the high school there that floodlights and I remember that time a year or was it was like around Halloween or something. And some kid led off from some like Chinese firecrackers in like the nearby state in the in the stands where we were playing near the fields. And it was four or five guys from the south playing in his team as well from Cork where I was from, and but there was a restaurant in the north of Ireland and when those firecrackers went off, they all hit the ground instinctively and we'll do some What's What's all that about? But that's where it came from. They have gone up where your bullets your shots, you get on the ground, and they all dived instinct and we were just gone What the hell is this? But that's it just it was just a little another little kind of insight right into another lived experience which glad I didn't have to go through that was wasn't easy. Yeah,

Siobhan: 1:19:42

well yeah to know you're so close but to have such a different experience to is like a treasure for you. But it's also like a great lesson and reminder of how lucky you

Rory: 1:19:51

live there had a really bad on all sides. Yeah, but uh, but it's a good thing that it's, you know, they're finally figured out and like I said, it's amazing that we're talking about it's a 25th anniversary of it you Yeah, Good Friday Agreement. They call it nuts today.

Siobhan: 1:20:02

Yeah. Well, it's funny that because we I just had this conversation with, I was at the Eagles and I was talking to one of my regulars. He was saying he just watched the movie Belfast, or product. Yeah. And I said, I haven't watched it yet. And he was like you should, because we would understand a lot of that. And he's like, you know, Margaret, that's where she's from. And Margaret is an older woman that hangs out at the Eagles. And she is from Belfast. And she left I think, maybe in the 90s. Also, she's been here, I think, yeah. So it'd be really fun to talk to her and hear about her experience.

Rory: 1:20:39

Yeah, I mean, that's that movie itself. It was really based around like the, the genesis of it, you know, how it blew up. Because it was always there. I mean, there's hundreds of years of agitation and fighting. And, you know, there's been multiple uprisings and 600 years of history, right, in various parts of Ireland, not just in the north. But that started in the 60s, late 60s. And it was a whole, you know, civil rights marches that initiated and then their communities got more and more divided. And then eventually trouble blew up and communities start attacking each other. And they would literally, like drive the Catholics or Protestants and pas and drive the Catholics out of their neighborhoods. And a lot of a lot of became refugees overnight, there was there was a refugee crisis, actually. And a lot of refugees came across the Irish border, the Irish state had to look out for them. And so loved people got resettled in Ireland as a direct result of the troubles when people don't remember that, I realized that that was a huge, you know, Alex, like, civil event rate in both sides. And, but then it got really nasty. And the British troops actually came in to protect the Catholic community from the past. And then it got the, you know, I mean, I didn't want to get into the, the real sort of details of it. But you know, allegedly, they colluded the British colluded with the Protestants, more so than the Catholics. And then there was, you know, considered favoritism. So they weren't trusted, and then kind of started fighting not only the Protestants, but the British soldiers as well. And the police force, which were very, you know, the company dominated by the Protestants, one of the one of the things of the Good Friday Agreement was one of the great successes was they disbanded the police force. And then we dealt with defunding police and disbanding the police ain't gonna happen. But, you know, there it has can happen in different forms. I mean, when when the police force is that out of control, right, right, you just kind of fix it, you have to do something, right? You need a police for us. So what do you do you have to disband it, you got to rename it, and you got to actually give them a new uniform, and you got to give them a new set of rules. And that's exactly what they didn't know. Because it just couldn't work.

Siobhan: 1:22:44

Right. But the new work, the new change did work. Oh, did it did

Rory: 1:22:49

they literally change it from the Royal Ulster Constabulary, which is a bad name, the Catholics don't like the royal aspect, the changes to the police service of Northern Ireland, and they made sure they recruited equal numbers of Catholics and Protestants, right, or they made an effort to at least right. And over time, it worked. And they gave him a new uniform, and they stopped, you know, they weren't, you know, as heavily militarized. And the you know, they just got better, they got smarter about this. Those are the kinds of solutions they came up with. They were clever. They were they became a model for other countries in the world afterwards, because they did such a good job in all the different pieces of it, but it was like a horrible mess at the time that I was there. And I never thought how are they ever going to fix this? No, they were actually talking about potentially might be Irish unity one day. Like that was what I was thinking that never happened? How can that possibly happen? It's not when thinkable. No. And when Brexit, it's good, everything operate. Because Brexit introduced a totally new dimension to it. Because Britain pulled out of Europe, and isolated themselves completely. In the vault. The majority of people in northern and Protestants and Catholics voted against Brexit, right? Because they knew it wasn't in their best interest, right? Same in Scotland, they all voted like no, we don't want to do Brexit. But then, you know, the total number of that vote was just marginally over the 50% Brexit happen, and they got sucked into it. And then not only you can have a separate country without a border, right? Because Europe is including Ireland, and so that little section, they taken the border known as part of the peace plan, right. But no, it's part of Europe, and Britain is not if northern part of Britain. What are you going, how are you? How are you going to facilitate trade across the border, right, without the controls without the the state you know, the different like standards on goods and transit and so it just became the like, so that what they do is they had to come up with a separate agreement for Northern Ireland and know the hardcore Unionists in Northern Ireland want to stay part of Britain, they felt like they were betrayed. So they're not happy. And they want all these concessions, but it's just not gonna happen. Right? And so know that this has happened, everybody's kind of going well, isn't it time we just kind of like joined together? Right? I mean, it makes

Siobhan: 1:25:19

practical sense it could

Rory: 1:25:20

happen. And there's nothing to be afraid of in the south anymore, you know, we're not going to ensure country was run by the church and backward country. No, we're a liberal, progressive, thriving economy, right, way stronger than the North think we should be together and you know, make it work somehow, right not to be afraid of, you know, the new generations have come through, they don't care about all the past stuff,

Siobhan: 1:25:42

right? The religious stuff isn't have as much of a hold anymore.

Rory: 1:25:46

So like, it's actually viable, though. And it was never before this is this is basically accelerated the process. You know, there's a mechanism there where it can happen. But it needs starting triggers. This is totally accelerated. So it's ironic. Like OpSite.

Siobhan: 1:26:02

Yeah, to the whole brain.

Rory: 1:26:04

Just complete this silly thing.

Siobhan: 1:26:06

Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's always nice to find the upsides in those situations.

Rory: 1:26:12

But it's ever changing, though. I mean, right now, there was, you know, like, Joe Biden is there tonight. He's or he's there going next couple days for big state visit, to recognize the 35th anniversary. Good for him. And he's, you know, he always talks up as he's Irish background. Yeah. He's like, Where's his green? Wait. So he's, you know, he's gonna be the news for next few days hanging out there. And it's kind of cool.

Siobhan: 1:26:35

That is kind of cool. I wonder if so in the part of Boston that I lived in, or my parents live in still as West Roxbury. And there's this guy, they call him the Mayor of West Roxbury. He's the head of one of the mortuaries. He's buried most of my family. He also grew up with one of my uncles and was good friend. But when you're friends with the mortuary guy, it always feels a little weird. But they call him the Mayor of West Roxbury, but he is like Irish descent. And he loves Ireland. And so he's friends with the, I think, is the Dublin mayor that comes over every year to spend time with him. And they do a whole delegation and all of that. And it's like, but he might, the mayor of cork might have been there, too. It's probably a whole delegation of them. Well, that hang out, because it's such a small country from San Francisco. Oh, that's fine.

Rory: 1:27:30

So I like tiny parts and I'm just gonna put, you know, they just, I mean, they give like an hour. I'm just gonna mayor is like, really more like, you know, powerful and huge in comparison, but not to be late on the court delegation. But you know, they exchanged pleasantries and spend an hour to each other, but it's not like, you know,

Siobhan: 1:27:51

right. Oh, ya know, like a non political, political.

Rory: 1:27:55

What is that there's all these delegations are always going back and forth. And there's, you know, St. Patrick's Day is a big thing like in, funnily enough, like, you know, the White House always invites people and they love They love coming to what you can imagine, because it elevates them, right. But all the political parties, no matter where they hate each other, they all turn up for that event. And they all get on just fine for that day.

Siobhan: 1:28:16

Yep. Yeah, but St. Patrick's Day is not a day in Ireland, or it hasn't become one now. We'll always watch it. So but I have this fight with people all the time. Because some people were like, it's not a big day in Ireland. And like, I feel like a lot of my friends from Ireland have told me it is a day. It's just not like it is here. It's not

Rory: 1:28:31

it's I mean, the Irish Americans take it to another level. Right? Yeah. Like the things right, you know, the argue the American was bigger and better do bigger brains and, you know, bigger events, and they do the river green and, you know, the de partie hard for that day. But it's I think that's I think that's important in the, in the fabric of American society, with all the different immigrant communities. I think every immigrant community needs their day, you know, the Italians had like St. Columbus Day, the Puerto Ricans have their big parade in New York, like every place has every every group, you know, the Portuguese have their big festivals. It's all different. They all got their own little thing going on Chinese here in time, Cisco had their big New Years thing and, yeah, so it's important to kind of wave your flags and let people know that, you know, you're a big community, and you're important. And so there's no different right? I think they think that different communities compete with each other. So the Irish go hard in America and more so than they do in, in Ireland itself for some other countries in the world, right. But there's, people will just go out and enjoy the day. But in Ireland, it's a religious holiday. That's the weird thing is like it's a day off work. So schools are shot and businesses are shot for that day. It's a bank holiday. Yep. So you kind of stuck and you gotta do something, right. So it kind of forces you to go on, but they don't do like the same year parades and stuff, but it's not the same level as here. So it's kind of like a break from work and School and

Siobhan: 1:30:01

so it's just another religious holiday.

Rory: 1:30:03

And back in the day, everyone to go to church as well, but not so much anymore. But it's and the whole mythology around it is, you know, is that just that mythology, you know, it's harmless stuff has no relevance to, you know what's going on? Yeah, I usually just wear something green and you know, go into work and people will make fun of me and have a joke and laugh about it. And that's pretty much it. Yeah, yeah.

Siobhan: 1:30:29

We drink a lot of Guinness around here on that day. That's about it. Actually, I'm gonna, let's say let's go get a Guinness. Although you don't really drink Guinness, you drink.

Rory: 1:30:41

Guinness for me one. I'm sure. You got cans?

Siobhan: 1:30:46

I don't know, I actually don't have any Guinness here. We'd have to go

Rory: 1:30:50

to Oh, yeah, I'm gonna say, Okay, well, when we're done, I think so. Close to the end.

Siobhan: 1:30:56

I know you can. We've talked about a bunch. Yeah, we can talk about you. Having your kid and your relationships, you can talk about a bunch of

Rory: 1:31:08

way more stuff to reveal? Well,

Siobhan: 1:31:11

we can keep talking. We'll see

Rory: 1:31:13

what kind of ratings I get. Kind of an audience the result there? Yeah,

Siobhan: 1:31:16

well, what's the teaser? What would be the topic next time you come back could be because this time we've covered kind of covered, you come into worries coming to America.

Rory: 1:31:27

I could probably talk a lot more about maybe some more observations in the US. That'd be interesting places that I visited in the US maybe some of the places I've seen overseas, don't blow my trumpet or anything?

Siobhan: 1:31:37

Well, ya know, you've traveled a lot more than I have. And it's just, you know, some of

Rory: 1:31:41

them observation how that relates to where we live here. And, and then, you know, I think we could talk about what my future plans are probably because I'm not certain about a lot of things as I think very few of us are. Yeah, and I like to think there's always new possibilities. And new, I think there's, I think there's one more big chapter left. Okay, me just personally, you know, maybe if you have three big chapters in your life, I think I've had to maybe there's another one coming somehow,

Siobhan: 1:32:08

what have your first two chapters when you're growing up in

Rory: 1:32:11

Ireland, and then the second chapter would be emigrated from Ireland to like, the time spent in London or here? Yeah. And then I'd say the third chapter would have probably be wherever I retire, or, you know, the lead up to retirement. And that's, you know, the later stages of my life, let's just say if I'm, you know, continued to be healthy and strong, willing to take on new things. But I think there's, there's new things out there that I haven't explored yet. I'm thinking starting to think about a little bit more. So now I get a bit older, but I don't have any concrete plan. But I think the key for me is, you don't go back to what you did before. You can, it's always there. But you don't want it pointless. You know, you mentioned earlier, would you prefer to live in or not? And so it's a great question, of course, another question. But for me personally, no, because that would be why do something you've already done and done? Well, when you could do something else completely new, and have another great experience?

Siobhan: 1:33:05

I think because new things scare people, I really think that that's what it is.

Rory: 1:33:09

That's not true. I mean, you know, you have to put that you have to get over hurdles, wherever you go, right? Whenever you do, if you start a new job, if you start a new relationship, you have to go through the hurdles to get to the good stuff, right? Nothing comes like right away instantaneous. And that's the same with all lived experiences, but especially when it comes to choosing a country to live in. Right. I mean, some people are very good, some people will move to a new country, and they'll take their whole family, young kids, and, you know, they immerse themselves in a place where you don't even speak the language. So some people may do it for work or job opportunity or, or they may be forced to, because of economic conditions or climate conditions, and, you know, or they can refugees, refugees. So, I mean, what, some people have no choice, but then you just gotta get on with it. Right? And, and so but if you put, it's easy to think of 10 reasons not to do something, that's what I would say. Right? Yeah, you could easily put 10 reasons together to not do something. What you really should be doing is thinking, okay, there, you know, what are those four or five really good reasons why you should do this, and focus on them. You know, there's pros and cons to everything. It's just, it's just, uh, you know, and I see some people that's not It's not their fault, right? You know, I've done pretty good. I mean, I have my own situations where I go God already want to do that. Or, you know, I'll pull them back from that I'm a little bit hesitant. You know, it's a small you know, it's natural anxiety right. And, and, you know, some people have a really bad and I understand that I feel for them because it impedes and holds them back. Right. But there's, I couldn't get past some of those issues. Or if you can, if you can, you know, just train your mind to think about a little bit differently. You can actually do a whole lot more. And you know, in life in general, just day to day stuff, but if you want to do something big in life, like move to another country or even just take an exotic vacation somewhere You know, take a risk or take a new start a new hobby or, or, you know, start a new relationship or, or, you know, just have a new lived experience doing, I don't know, taking on a new path or, you know, getting a new, say to all be or a project, you know, there's like, all those things are the enriched you when you when you get past the hurdles, and then you have you even if it's not, even if it's a bad experience, and it's an experience,

Siobhan: 1:35:31

right, you just still eat the competence that you gained from trying it. And even if it's a shitty experience, like, you walk away, and you're like, well, that sucks, I should have done it. Yeah. And you're

Rory: 1:35:41

not gonna learn something from it. I mean, if I want to go back a lot to do it the next time, or I can take those, you know, mistakes that I made are complaints. It's, it's all about, if you don't, you gotta go, gotta get up more, you gotta open the door, you gotta go outside, right? Stuff is not going to come to you in your house. And enricher right. So it's, you know, that's, that's the philosophy, which can be applied in all these different scenarios, which, you know, just preacher antipode encourage people to just go out there and get it. Either shot.

Siobhan: 1:36:12

Even if you are preaching though, it's a great message to be preaching is to go give it a shot to, like, just try it.

Rory: 1:36:18

You know, ultimately, why do you have to lose? I'm not saying you have to, you know, try a dangerous sport, you know, I'm not saying like, try hang gliding with no training, right? That's not smart. Right? But you know, you can you can go out and do a whole, there's no,

Siobhan: 1:36:33

I like your, I like your thing, because you're saying, like, make the list, figure out why you don't want to do it, but also figure out why you should do it. And then focus on that. Because sometimes just getting it out of your brain helps to like, of getting those fears out. Like, I've gotten over a lot of my anxiety because of just exposure therapy. Like it sucks. And sometimes I get to a door and I'm like, Nah, I'm not doing it today, I'll go home. And other times, I'm like, okay, I can get through that door today. And sometimes on the days where I'm like, I don't think I can do this. I've done it before. So I know I can do it again.

Rory: 1:37:03

And it's hard. And then you know, I, I sympathize. I mean, I don't suffer from it myself, thankfully. But if I fire friends, I know I know what's going on. And I got a very good friend and another guy who actually grew up with this. The other thing I probably didn't mention, I did mention, I knew a lot of people. But I still know a lot of people from the time that I moved here. And these are people that I grew up with when I was like four or five years of age. That's while I was still here.

Siobhan: 1:37:32

I have friends that I've known since kindergarten. And they all still live in Massachusetts, but we still are friends. And sometimes when we're out. Yeah. And because we have such a shorthand, we know everything, basically about each other. So we have such a shorthand or when something's going on. And one of us calls the other one. It's like an instant, you know, there's three or four of us that sometimes even though two of us might talk and those two don't talk, we all know what's going on with each other because that group of us talk. And so if one thing happens, then we all show up.

Rory: 1:38:00

That's fantastic. I have a similar kind of network. And it's been maintained as Yeah, and no, you know how valuable that is our whole precious, kind of rare, it's not that common, you know, so

Siobhan: 1:38:11

yeah. When I've said stuff, yeah, when I've said stuff here about oh, I was out with some friends and people like, Oh, do you still have a lot of friends? They're kind of like I do, I don't see or talk to them as often. But whenever I go home, we have dinner. And, you know, one of us has been two of us or three of us have been friends since kindergarten, if not before and then one or two just from freshman year in high school. But it's great. And it's something that I really cherish kind of and know that it's rare. Yeah. But it's, it's seems super rare for you to have because you didn't go up here.

Rory: 1:38:44

Like I literally spent last weekend with a buddy of mine called Joel Donnelly. And he's like, he was going to half mile from where I grew up. His parents and my parents, I was with him last weekend. I met deze last night. And I don't spend all my time on these, but it just last few weeks. And I was on the phone with a guy who I wanted to play golf with me this weekend. And he lives in San Francisco and he lived a block or a couple of blocks from my house where I grew up in his parents, not my parents, right? Yeah. So it's still there, those little concentric kind of circles are still there and the connection and then, you know, might not talk to me for two months, but they're always there. That's the beauty of it. Really good friends. You know, we all knew we all we all went to the same. Like kindergarten, primary school, secondary school and university. Oh, wow. And still hanging out? You know, yours in the 1000s of miles away, right. And another place another part of the world.

Siobhan: 1:39:40

Yeah, that's kind of cool. That is very cool. And that is not something that a lot of people have

Rory: 1:39:44

not, not many people can say that. So I'm very grateful for that.

Siobhan: 1:39:48

But it also is a testament to who you are as a person, that you continue to have those friendships and relationships.

Rory: 1:39:55

I mean, I think that it's important to have everyone's got everyone's got acquaintance. This race, some people don't, some people are very small circles of friends, I've got a wide circle of friends, and I'm kind of easy to, you know, I'm easy to get on with, and I'm social, I attract friends. And I can form friendships easily, right? Don't struggle from that, you know, from any, you know, lack of ability. But anything, I have to minimize it, scale it back a little bit. But I think in the midst of, you know, friends and acquaintances, you it's, I think there's a healthy number for everybody. I think, you know, seven or eight, maybe 10. Really good friends. If you always have that balance in your life, you're rich, man, you're lucky. If you can keep that kind of level of, you know, not not like 50 acquaintances does not equate to four really good strong friends, right? You can't beat that you could have five really good strong friends and no acquaintances. You'd be just fine. Right. You know, it's nice to have the acquaintances as well. It's all part of the tapestry. Right, but, but you got to have those inner circle for flav. I think that's, that's what sustained me anyway, over the years.

Siobhan: 1:41:08

Yeah. And I think that's a secret to life, because I think those people that don't have that are the ones that kind of struggle and become outliers. And,

Rory: 1:41:15

I mean, I've had some friends and relationships over the years, people that don't have the same, you know, social forming skills, you know, like being able to build a web on people. And it's not. I mean, it's, I never work at it. I never, like, sit down with a piece of paper and going on a farm, you know, right. It's just all very organic. And it has to happen that way for me, but I've seen people who tried to create them, right, don't have them. And they work at it. And it's like, God, I'd hate to have to do that. Yeah. And you can do you do what you got to do. But I'm not criticism. But there's something fake about that. It's like, I think the end product that is never going to be as good, right? Yeah, it's just it, especially with social media, a lot of people got into like, no Yahoo groups, and there's newer terms for it. And right now, but there was all sorts of, you know, clubs and societies that just came up online. Yeah. And people were able to, like, you know, check boxes and go, that's my profile, I got to hang with those people. And I just thought was the weirdest thing, right? I mean, it can work. And if you just moved to New sitting, hadn't a clue you nobody can understand, you know, doing that. But I saw people have like, shouldn't have had to do that. But they're there they were, they'd obviously lead lonely lives, and it didn't create good friendships, or maybe they move around. And, you know, friends can be kind of fickle at times, or I don't have friends or you build it up. But there's something very kind of artificial about it. Yeah, it seems forced. Yeah. And even if you were successful, you felt like you were successful, because you could count. You could measure it like, I don't know, 250 people according to the population of this group, and I've made 180 of them. So therefore, I must be doing really well. No, you're not right, right. Forget the 180 people that you actually encountered or you exchanged, you know, messages with, like, give show me the four people that you would go on a weekend away with, right, right. Or if you're in a job, and you said, Listen, I think 500 bucks, or if you you know, needed a babysitter, or last minute, you know, something like that, right? That you know, you can call them and it's like, you know what, got it. Right, right. That's that those? That's the topic. Those are the four or five core you have to have, right? Yeah. So yeah, I'm rambling here.

Siobhan: 1:43:32

Oh, it's okay. It's just, you know, it's time with Rory.

Rory: 1:43:38

Well, what should we do? Should we just call that we maybe do it again?

Siobhan: 1:43:40

I think we should. Yeah. Thank you for coming to sit with us.

Rory: 1:43:43

I know. We didn't have any agenda, we know. So if we want to do this again, we could actually have some themes. We could. We could maybe wear some costumes.

Siobhan: 1:43:51

Oh, all right. All right, y'all, you'll have to come in tune back in next episode. To see what we get into or get it up.

Rory: 1:44:00

We're gonna see all the ratings go on this one. We're gonna see what kind of traffic we get. And then we can see get some sponsors. Oh, there we go. We're gonna make this a regular thing, right. We're gonna monetize. All right, we're gonna do t shirts and baseball.

Siobhan: 1:44:15

Well, the duck in reality is going there are a couple other podcasts that are hopefully going to be coming down the pike that we'll be producing. So we have it we can do it. All right. All right, y'all, you all find your joy. Thank you so much worry. Bye, y'all.