Living Before Dying: Cancer, Coaching & Curiosity with Sarah Knopp

This episode of Ducking Realitea dives headfirst into the messy, funny, terrifying, and strangely beautiful reality of living with metastatic cancer. Siobhan sits down with Sarah Knopp, who was told she had six weeks to live after aggressive HER2-positive breast cancer had already spread to her liver. Eleven years, 160+ rounds of chemo, brain surgery, a hysterectomy, and a lot of dark humor later, she’s not only still here — she’s coaching others to survive the chaos.

Sarah shares stories of diapers and puppy pads, neuropathy, sex after chemo, cannabis, Ritalin, medical gaslighting, and why she estranged herself from her family to stay alive. Now a certified cancer coach, she teaches patients how to advocate for themselves, ask better questions, and protect their energy.

Bold, irreverent, and full of real talk,  this isn’t a cancer sob story. It’s a blueprint for living.

Transcript

Siobhan: 0:07

Hey y'all, welcome to this week's episode of Ducking reality in the pond. With me today is a new friend, Sarah knap, welcome Sarah. Hi, hi. It's good to be here. I'm so excited to talk to you. We just started to almost get into it. And I was like, time out. Let's go to the mics, because I was interviewed or introduced to you via a mutual friend. And I was forget how we got onto the topic, but he ended up telling me about your story, about that he had a friend that had cancer, and then turned it into a whole kind of business, but of inspiration. And then he was telling me about your traveling, and I was like, Okay, I need to know more. And so luckily, I got right in contact with you, and here we are.

Unknown: 0:47

No, it's great. And John is really wonderful.

Siobhan: 0:50

He Oh, you're okay. You can just Okay, relax. Yeah.

Unknown: 0:54

He's great. I met his wife in a cancer support group. So let's take it back to the beginning. In 2014 I was traveling in Europe studying to be a master sommelier. Oh, awesome. And I noticed a lump in my breast. I'm like, I get them all the time. It's probably just shellfish allergy. I'm not worried about it. It was a great summer. Like one day would be in Budapest, and the next day I'd be in Bordeaux, and then I'd be in Italy in Spain, my language. It was so much fun, but this lump was slowly getting bigger, not going away. I'm like, Oh, it's a little nerve wracking. Yeah, it's in my right breast, and then it got into my auxiliary lymph nodes, so up in the armpit. So I'm like, oh, that's that's a little bad, but I'm not really worried about it, because I used to get cysts all the time. So I'm still going all over, meeting friends from all over the world, having great food, great wines. I get my dream job launching a French product line in America. Wow. So I'm like, All right, it's time to go back. And at this time too, I was really, really fatigued. Like, I end up in Paris at a friend's house, and I would be sleeping like, 12 hours. Oh, wow. And he's like, it's so great that you're so comfortable, you can just be knocked out while you're here. I'm like, really is, and his place is fabulous. So, like, it's an honor to be here, right? So then I started getting really itchy and kind of getting, like, a weird rash. And I'm like, Oh, I bet I got scabies because I was on it overnight. Well, no, but, I mean, it was like, Oh, what do you do? Like, what else can it be? I put, you know, antihistamines on it. It didn't go away. I'm like, All right, I'm going home. Anyways, I'll figure out what it is when I get home. Yeah, so I don't have insurance because I was planning on spending a year in Europe and had insurance over there go to Planned Parenthood, because I'm like, my breast is getting itchy too and like, that lumps not going away. So I go in and I'm like, I got this rash. And they're like, Oh, you're going isolated in a room. And I knew the nurse. I'm like, You got to look at my breast, because she, like, peeked in the door. And she's like, all right, show me your breasts. I take my shirt off, and she just opens the walks, and she's like, you don't have scabies. And I'm like, Oh, man. She's like, you got to go the hospital right now. I'm like, I'm not because I had the pitting, like an orange, okay, it was starting to get a little discolored. So I'm like, I can't it. Just started a new job. I can't go today or tomorrow. And she's like, I'm like, I promise I will go. I get about 20 steps away, and the phone rings and it's her. She goes. You have an appointment Friday, 7am they're opening up a half hour early for you, so you got to be there. I'm like, fine. I'll be there. Wonderful, really rainy day, just like downpouring, and I get in there, and sure enough, the lady with the radiator radiology tech comes in and it's doing the mammogram. And I have pretty dense breasts, right? And I'm squeezed in this machine, you know? And there's squeezed down, like, to an inch, and like, Oh, my God, she comes up behind me, and she hugs me, and she goes, I'll pray for you. And I'm like, Oh, this can't be good, but meanwhile, I'm still stuck in the machine, right? So I'm like, Yeah, that's awkward. That's awkward a whole day of biopsies, needle, ultrasound guided biopsies, they put the markers in. I'm thinking, all right, just this is more intense than I thought, but it'll be okay, right, right? Because I had a mammogram the year before, and it was clean. So I'm like, you can't be anything. How old were you at this point? 41 just turned 41 so pretty young. Yeah. So I find out on Monday that it is breast cancer. I'm like, All right, and they're like, since it's in your lymph node, and it's already this size, we're going to give you a full body scan. Comes back, it's also in my liver. I. So then I had to do a liver biopsy. And if there's any one reason not to drink, it's a liver biopsy because mine bled and it is the most painful I am standing on the bed. I'm like, if it hurts, I'll just throw my feet together. They're like, Oh no, we'll let you know if it hurts. I lost control of my bowels on the table. I'm like, Oh my God. They're like, Oh yeah, it hurts, doesn't it?

Siobhan: 5:27

You're like, yeah, that's normal. You're like, no, it is not Yeah,

Unknown: 5:30

cuz there's a sack around your liver, and it fills up with blood, and then it pushes on your heart and your stomach and the spleen, and it is unbelievably painful, just and there's no painkillers, right? Because they have to know, so then extra four hours in the hospital dealing with this. So it turns out that I was HR two positive, so which is really good, because Genentech went and you some guys from UCLA found out what protein feeds the cancer. Okay, so as long as they could control the protein, they could control my cancer. Okay, so I did six rounds of cytotoxic chemo, just really nasty stuff.

Siobhan: 6:15

That's the stuff that basically almost kills you. It is kills

Unknown: 6:18

everything in your body. Yeah, it makes you want to be dead, lost all my hair. Oh my god, I have this great story. I got a mohawk. Because when else in life can you have a mohawk? Yeah, so then I love the sensation of my hair being tugged. Oh, so I was in the bathroom and I was just kind of tugging on my hair, yeah, and it started to come out, but it didn't hurt. So I'm like, I'll just see if I can't just take it out this way. Oh, my God, I had nail patterns for two years. Do not do it. Whatever you do. Do not do this because, like, I had to shave my head for two years. Oh, just straight, like, Halo, yeah? Just, Oh, my God, the

Siobhan: 7:00

reverse horseshoe, yeah.

Unknown: 7:03

So then, after about four rounds, cancer started shrinking. Oh, so before I started any of the treatments, the treatments, my tumors went from the size of a walnut to a mango. Holy shit, that's fast. Oh my god, so so fast growing. And my doctor, I remember, she made me wait to be the last patient, and we talked for hours, and she's like, I can't cure you, but I could probably extend your life a little bit, as it is right now, you have six weeks.

Siobhan: 7:42

I can't even imagine what someone telling you like that, how that feels to hear it. It's hard, yeah, like I can't. It's mind boggling. Yeah, because I can't even you. It's something that, like, I can empathize with a lot of things, but I just can't to hear it like i has to be one of the scariest sentences to ever come towards you.

Unknown: 8:07

Yeah? It's, it's, so you can't wrap your mind around it, yeah? I mean, you're not feeling good, so you're like, Oh, I didn't know I was feeling that bad, right? But within four rounds of this cocktail, it started to really shrink, and then in six rounds, it had really shrunk. So then I'm thinking, and she's like, I don't know how long you're gonna live, but the longer you live, the longer you're going to live, right? So I'm like, All right. So she's like, that's all we can tell you, right?

Siobhan: 8:42

But in that it's like, it I was just thinking, is, what's really kind of screwed up about that is like, that's really how we all walk around, yeah, like, you're only gonna live as long as you live, and nobody knows, right? But to have it be like, so imminent, almost, and be like, Well, we thought it was gonna be six weeks, but now it could be, we don't know. We don't know, but we can't guarantee anything, right?

Unknown: 9:01

And I loved my doctors, Dr krupaskaya, and she's Russian. She had a Russian accent, which was wonderful. Like, I can't cure you. You're going to die. Like, oh my god, say it again. She just looked at me. I'm like, I've had some hard times in life. This is not the hardest thing I'm going to live through. She's like, fair enough.

Siobhan: 9:21

Well, that's also to be able to think that or say that, to be like, Okay, you're telling me I have six weeks like, this is not going to be the hardest thing I live through.

Unknown: 9:29

Yeah. And I did it all on living alone, not on my own, because I had a lot of really good friends, right? But I did it, and I highly recommend it, because when I needed to sleep, nobody woke me up to calm their minds, and I didn't have to placate anybody else's imagination. Because you can't really talk about it once you're going through it, it's still really hard to talk about the gritty details, right? But I know. Know what's going on, so nobody was waking me up saying you got a fever or you have to eat because I'm allergic to Herceptin. So I get 50 milligrams of liquid Benadryl before Okay, and it just swipes me out like I'll be in bed literally for three days. I the longest I slept was five days, wow. And that's a lot of Benadryl. Well, yeah, but not even with Benadryl, just You're so fatigued from the chemo, right, like, and you know, your body will take care of itself. If you have to go the bathroom, you will wake up and go to the bathroom. If you are hungry, you're gonna wake up and eat, yeah, and drink. But one of the side effects was I had terrible, terrible diarrhea for five years. Oh, God. Like, have you ever had a colonoscopy? Yes, diarrhea like that every day for five years. That's terrible, to the point where I had to put rubber bands on my pant legs. Oh gosh, because the bathroom being 15 steps away from the bed was too far away, and I got tired of cleaning the carpets all the time, right? And it's disgusting and you don't feel good, you're already nauseous and feeling awful, right?

Siobhan: 11:11

Yeah? I mean, it's an ingenious way to hack that is

Unknown: 11:16

rubber bands, yeah? And then I throw away a lot of pants, yeah? Because at some point, like, I'm not even gonna attempt to wash that, right? It's so bad.

Siobhan: 11:26

That's yeah, I did a study once where I was and I definitely got the pill. But one of the side effects was, like, you would basically shit your pants, and it was like, like, out of nowhere, it would be like, emergent, and I'd be like, I can't go anywhere for like, two hours after I eat now, until and I ended up quitting the study. And one of the women running the study was like, Well, you can't quit, like, we need the data. I'm like, Well, I can't shit my pants in public, right? I don't know what to tell you. It's not worth enough money to, like, get paid to maybe shit my pants in

Unknown: 11:54

public, right? And you can quit a study at any time, if you do a clinical trial, yeah, you can walk away. Well, when your aunt is one of the people running it, oh, running it,

Siobhan: 12:06

she's like, You can't quit. And I'm like, I can quit, and I will, right? Like, you can't I think I stayed in for maybe, like, two more weeks, and then was like, I can't keep doing this. I'm quitting. Like, be mad at me. I won't talk to you at Christmas. It's fine.

Unknown: 12:19

Yeah, I wore diapers. Yeah, if I got into people's cars, Puppy pads, wow. Because they're like, it's okay, Sarah, it's okay. I'm like, You say that now, right? But the moment I crap in your car, you're not gonna be. You're not gonna be because it's not coming out of the seat as much as you want. And then you have the memory of it and you'll sell the car and be mad at me.

Siobhan: 12:39

Yeah, yeah. You're like, I'm protecting you from this, yeah? Much as you're trying to be like, kind to me, it's like, no, this is yeah. Being sick is messy, right? And it makes people really uncomfortable, right? And I don't know what to do with it, yeah.

Unknown: 12:54

Now it was somebody's car. I didn't like, whoops, I

Siobhan: 12:57

had no idea, right? I forgot him, my bad? Yeah, I think the humor too, is something that people makes people uncomfortable, but when you actually have gone through some of the toughest shit, it's the only thing that gets you through it.

Unknown: 13:10

Oh, and I was lucky. I found a support group for metastatic cancer about six months after I was diagnosed, and it was great to have peers, because it's not all about, Oh, I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Oh, my God. It killing you with sympathy. And it's just like, No, in the group, it's like, yes, so right? Put rubber bands on your pant legs, like, get over it, right? Figure it out, right? It will help you figure it out. But there's no, we're not going to cry for you, right?

Siobhan: 13:43

Yeah, because you're also all in it together different stages, but you're all kind of looking down the same barrel at that

Unknown: 13:48

point, and there's so much knowledge that you can only share with other cancer patients. It's got to be like when our grandfathers and fathers and brothers came back from war, right?

Siobhan: 13:58

Yeah, I would imagine, because, yeah, that's why they all kind of stuck together. Yeah, they'd hang out all day just shooting the shit about stuff, right? And maybe

Unknown: 14:07

not even talk about cancer, right? This particular group, though, we did talk about cancer, which was nice

Siobhan: 14:13

when you were is, like, when, at what point kind of in that journey, did you switch into coaching, like early on or So you were saying you were about six months in when you met that group. Yeah, you were in those treatments, and everything started kind of shrinking,

Unknown: 14:30

and then we started helping each other out. But then a really good friend had brain cancer in German. Well, he was living in Hungary at the time, but living His home was Berlin, okay, so I went. He was amazing. It was super smart engineer type, okay, spoke six languages. Went to a hospital in Hungary. They refused to treat him because that he was gonna die like and. They're like, No. So his wife panicked and drove to Hungary from Berlin, picked him up and then drove back back to Berlin to go to charity. I'm like, why don't you just put him in an ambulance and have the ambulance drive so we've got there six hours earlier. She goes. We weren't thinking about that, right? She was gonna fix it herself, right? So he was mumbling in the car. Couldn't comprehend anything he was saying, right? Oh, wow. They go in, they remove it, they get the entire tumor, and within hours of waking up from surgery, he could talk, and within days, he could speak all six languages fluently. He could do math. Again, it's just Modern medicine is unbelievable. And now with AI, it's going to be fabulous, right? But he didn't have any survivorship. I'm like, so when's your next scan? And he's like, What do you mean? I'm like, don't you have a plan of when you're going to come back in and what doctors and who to call. And he's like, no,

Siobhan: 16:03

they got it. I'm done. Yeah. So then we

Unknown: 16:06

came up with one, and he's like, this is really brilliant. And I'm like, I can't believe you don't have this. And then I taught him how to travel with the documents that he needs and proof of, you know, the medicines he's taking, because you don't always want to travel with 50 pill bottles, because it would take up your health suitcase, right? Oh, I've never even thought, and this was now we have all the apps, but we didn't have those in the past, like epic software was just starting to come out, because they do a really great health app that you can you can get all your stuff anywhere in the world, and they can electronically share scans, share radiology films. It's really good. Like your health app, yeah, it's all in there, nice, correct access to your doctors. Like, it's like technology is amazing. It is so it probably started coaching then in about 2016

Siobhan: 17:03

so just two years after you're Yeah, and you're still alive,

Unknown: 17:07

I'm still alive. I I can't believe it. And for the in May, I started to go on a break. So my first break ever from chemo. I've had more than 160 rounds. That's a lot. I kind of lost track. I didn't want to keep counting. No. I mean, I kind of want to keep counting, but no, it's too much. I mean,

Siobhan: 17:26

it's all probably there. It's not hard to have. Ai be like, how many treatments have I had now? Right?

Unknown: 17:31

Well, then I was trying to figure out my peers, and I think there might be 10 people in America that have more chemo than I have, holy shit. And internationally, there must be some, and there's probably more. I just haven't been able to locate any, right? Wow, but it's

Siobhan: 17:48

that's like a really exclusive club that no one wants to be in.

Unknown: 17:51

You don't want to be in. It's the best club you never want to be in. That's Oh, and then in 2022 So then I've had multiple skin cancers, just little ones, but 2022, I was having these terrible headaches. I'm thinking, Oh, finally went to my brain, because breast cancer wants to go to the brain, yep. So it turns out I had an unruptured aneurysm in my brain. Oh, my, of course. It had to have brain surgery, which was, I was fortunate, because they could go in through the femoral artery. Okay, so I don't, I didn't have to shave my head, or they didn't crack my skull. You're like, my hair

Siobhan: 18:32

is just coming back. Yeah, no, but

Unknown: 18:36

it was so weird waking up from that, and, you know, they put your head in the halo so they drill into your skull. Okay? I just remember pulling pieces of chunks of dried blood out of my hair, but you're still all drugged up, because, let's face it, fentanyl and Dilaudid are wonderful, wonderful drugs like, Oh, what is this? I'm in the spa. This is so great.

Siobhan: 18:59

Meanwhile, the chunk of your skull, yeah?

Unknown: 19:02

When just, like, we're just all the blood from around it, yeah? And they're like, don't, don't do that.

Siobhan: 19:09

I love that. Your ringer is a quack. I'm so sorry. It's perfect for Ducking. It is. Yeah, we really are in a pond.

Unknown: 19:18

And then I had to have a full hysterectomy because I was ER positive. What is ER positive estrogen? Oh, so if my body were to produce estrogen, it would feed into the cancer.

Siobhan: 19:31

That's one thing that when I learned that, I was like, we don't get any breaks, do we as women, like, no. And I don't know if a lot of people realize that,

Unknown: 19:39

right, and I was so I went through menopause twice, once from the chemicals, yeah, and then once from surgery. I have to admit, once you're through the other side, though, it's pretty nice. It is. It is nice.

Siobhan: 19:49

I've gone through chemically induced menopause three times now because I had really bad endometriosis. So I went through freshman year in high school, or going into my fresh. Year in high school, and I would have to have, I had to have, I went to an all girls private Catholic school, so I had to have a note from the doctor that says I could take my my, like, polyester wool sweater off, so I would be going through hot flashes with a couple of my teachers.

Unknown: 20:13

Oh, my God, we'd like, this is terrible, right? Did your boobs grow during Yeah? So yeah, my boobs grew twice, yep, and haven't gone back down. I'm like, Oh, come on, yeah.

Siobhan: 20:24

I for Christmas. A few years ago, I got myself a breast reduction because I have a neck injury too. And the doctor, my PT guys were like, well, the only thing also we can, like, tell you to do is do something with those things.

Unknown: 20:37

I was so excited to get a double mastectomy. And they're like, no, oh, you're too far advanced.

Siobhan: 20:43

So they so they're like, just have to try to shrink it, yeah? Wow.

Unknown: 20:47

I'm like, and my doctor's like, why do you want a mastectomy? I'm like, so I can lay on my stomach, and she goes, you're not you will never heal. Yeah? Like your cancer is so far beyond and thank God she was

Siobhan: 21:01

honest, right? You, yeah, because that's a surgery you don't want to have to go through if you

Unknown: 21:05

don't have to, no, but, oh, my god, your shoulders must feel so much better they

Siobhan: 21:09

do, although I probably should have went even smaller,

Unknown: 21:12

yeah, but it's hard to get rid of the girls, right?

Siobhan: 21:14

It is like, I was like, talking to the doctor, and we're trying to go back and forth for sizes. And I was like, I don't know. I'm also, like, it's part of who I've been my whole life, right? Like, I don't want to not have any boobs. And then I was like, I do want them to be housewives boobs so I never have to wear another bra, right? Which is not the job he gave me. He was like, I thought you were cute. Because afterwards, I was like, these are great. And he's like, Well, they'll fall and, you know, they'll go back to looking more natural. And I was like, No, I want them to stay, like, this, great, because the bra is uncomfortable. Yeah. I'm like, I don't want to have to have to buy another bra. I told you that. And he was like, I thought that was more of a joke. And I was like, This is why you can't be funny at the

Unknown: 21:48

doctors, right, right? This is so my first doctor, Dr Cooper, sky. I've had six different oncologists. I would because if you don't like your oncologist, change.

Siobhan: 22:03

It's like a therapist, I kind of imagine it is like, you have to have a good relationship with them if they're going to be helping you fight for

Unknown: 22:09

your life. Yeah. But I'm like, do not sugarcoat anything. If you can say it in a sentence, say it in four words, like you will die. You will be like, I'm not going to be able to process all the fluffy stuff. Just tell me, right?

Siobhan: 22:24

I'm kind of similar, yeah. Just yeah. Like, give me the information so then I could figure out what to do about it.

Unknown: 22:29

Yeah. And I find this with most cancer survivors, you're really blunt. Like, I don't have time to be too flowery, like, just get to the point, yeah. Like, life is short, yeah,

Siobhan: 22:42

and we don't even know how short. So, like, let's go, right?

Unknown: 22:45

I feel bad for some people. They're like, You're so harsh, and I'm like, You're so lax. Like, I'm sure we can meet in the middle, but I'm not going too far towards the middle. I'm like,

Siobhan: 22:56

this is just who I am. Yeah? You're like, like, the two steps, but that's I'm not doing four, yeah,

Unknown: 23:01

if I offend you, my apologize, I apologize. Get thicker skin, or maybe we'll just part our ways.

Siobhan: 23:07

Yep, yeah, I have a similar vibe, and it's because I've been through so many health issues. I haven't had cancer. I've had skin cancers, but not I have not anything near what you've done. Sounds like you've been through the ringer. Yeah, my neck injury put me through a lot. So I've had and overall, I've had a couple, like, I've had about a dozen surgeries for different reasons. And my neck injury put me through a lot of tests and needles and all of that. And it was in so much pain at times, I was like, I'm just gonna cut my arm off. I'm just gonna maybe not exist anymore, right? And I was on fentanyl and Dilaudid and Gabapentin and all of it for the nerve damage and all of that. And so I can I understand similar of the trajectory of it and what it feels like, and then to just have no patience for people, right? Like, I'm like, You don't understand. My head can't even move to the right, and you're talking to me about someone taking your parking spot. Like, right? It's stupid. Go find a new one, right? Why are we still talking about this three hours

Unknown: 24:02

later, right? I'll just get up and walk away.

Siobhan: 24:05

Yeah, I yeah, I know same. And because I bartend so often, I can just walk away from a conversation whenever I need to, right? Oh, like someone's over there and it needs me, right? And sometimes I have to remind myself, and I'm in a party or something, that I can't just walk away, right?

Unknown: 24:21

But I do, yeah, I just say, excuse me and walk off. Yeah.

Siobhan: 24:24

And I'm like, I don't, and I don't care if you think I'm rude, right? I'm trying, not trying to be. But if I stand here, I'm gonna say something that is rude.

Unknown: 24:31

Oh, that's good, because I just kind of like, touch my stomach or abdomen and just like, and they're like, Oh yeah, thank God for that, because it gets

Siobhan: 24:42

did give you something, right?

Unknown: 24:43

It did. Oh my gosh. So I bought a motorcycle, like, once I finished the heavy chemo, yeah, and, you know, I went in there and I bawled. He's like, What do you want? I'm like, I'm gonna buy a scooter. He's like, seriously? I'm like, Yeah, I had my first motorcycle at eight. I. He, yeah, I grew up in Colorado. Oh, okay, um, so I'm like, I want to scooter. I'm rewarding myself like, and I was not going to die from chemo. And then also, it proved to be the only thing for years that would increase my endorphins. Oh, because I couldn't walk that much like it took me all day to walk two miles because you're so weak from everything, you're so weak in the fatigue, and you can't go that far from a bathroom, right? Yeah, I had this great friend, Edith, come over to my house while I was in the heavy chemo, and she comes over and she's like, Come on, let's go. I'm like, I don't feel good. I'm not going. She's like, I'm 80 years old. I just walked two miles. Get your ass out of bed. You know, she's all of 80 pounds and five feet tall. Yes, ma'am. And she took me around the neighborhood. Showed me where every park bench was in every bathroom she goes. You have to walk two miles every day. Oh, I love Edith, and she was just wonderful. But also, with my chemo, I couldn't be in the sunshine, so then I have huge hats and gloves, and I'm pretty pale anyways, but I was just like, I knew I looked like a freak walking around, but didn't care.

Siobhan: 26:15

No, yeah, let your freak flag fly. Like, yeah, get yourself healthy. Well, it's

Unknown: 26:20

hard, too, because I'd walk in the neighborhood where I'd lived the last 1020, or 10 years, and people would see me and cross the street, oh, and it was just at first it hurt, and then I just chased him down. I don't know if you saw me, but how are you doing? And just because you have to push them through their uncomfortableness to get over it, right?

Siobhan: 26:43

Yeah, when you're when people are uncomfortable, they avoid it. It's like when you get divorced, like your friend, like the people that are married don't hang out with you anymore because they feel like it's contagious, right, right? It's that kind of thing, like, where people and death makes everyone uncomfortable, yeah? Like, it's one of the things that will go everyone will go through. 100% of the people we love are gonna die, but you don't want to talk about it, right? You don't want to deal with it. And if someone knows someone that's either dying or has just died, you don't want to talk to them, correct? It's the weirdest thing to me, yeah? Like, I'm like, Oh, I'll talk to you, but I've been through it so many times, yeah,

Unknown: 27:21

so I'd walk up the street. I lived on College Avenue in Rock Ridge. Okay? To cold coffee. I was sitting there waiting for a friend to show up, and my friend, Harry, who was Australian, moved back to Australia, happened to come around the corner, and he was just looking at me, and I'm looking at him. I'm bald, right? The only time that jerkness of Australian men was appropriate. Says, like, what the hell's going on there? Sarah? Like, I don't know what you mean. You're dome. She just called me DOM. He's like, No, I'm like, I got breast cancer, and it was the most appropriate way to talk to somebody about it, like, Hey, what's going on? Like, don't say you look different. And moon face, right? Yeah. Moon face, no hair, no wrinkles, right?

Siobhan: 28:17

Yeah. Did you rock wigs at all? Or did you, oh, my God, I had so much fun. Did you

Unknown: 28:22

I had this bright pink wig, bangs, long Bob, Middle Eastern men would go crazy over it. Ooh it, yeah. And then I had long, curly hair, like, and then, like, Mexican men love that one.

Siobhan: 28:38

Okay, I like it. Hairstyles, by

Unknown: 28:41

right, short, little like designer, Vida Sassoon type cut, Yeah, different. Men liked it. It was so much fun. Blondes, I still have them. I still play with wigs. Women play with wigs. Men play with wigs too.

Siobhan: 28:56

Yeah. Why not? Yeah, rocket hairpiece or four, right, switch it up. See what it feels like. Like it gives you, it kind of gives you that permission to have fun with it. Oh, yeah. Like, I one of my aunts. She was rocking different wigs, and I loved it. It was she was doing she had such fun with it too. And it was just such a like, never knowing what she was going to show up with, right? Was fun. And being like, right, who's she gonna be today? Like, what are we rocking?

Unknown: 29:21

And get colors, get the blues, get the greens. Because chemo is also, like a chemical pill. So your skin is really beautiful because it's turning over at such a high rate. Oh, that it's like, oh, this is really great,

Siobhan: 29:35

really great. You're like, my skin looks like I'm 14. Well, that feels inappropriate. Now with everything in the world,

Unknown: 29:42

right? Well, as long as I'm feeling myself, yeah,

Siobhan: 29:46

so what like? When did you decide to take your first international trip during or after all of this? Because you've traveled extensively, yeah?

Unknown: 29:54

So diagnosed in end of September. I. I started chemo the beginning of November, and in April of the next year, I went on a six week trip to Europe to say goodbye to my friends, and that was hard, because here I'm doing pretty good, but they're like, there's you have no future. They're like, I wouldn't buy stocks. Wow, right? So you're

Siobhan: 30:30

like, all right. And how do you hold on to your hope when they're telling you there's no hope? Like, it's

Unknown: 30:35

really easy to die. What do you because all your priorities come into line? I need to say goodbye to these people like I wrote letters to everybody how they touched my life and how they made me feel, and then say one letter for 2015 and then I'm like, Oh, it's a year later. I should update it. So now I have a series of 10 letters for people, so when I finally do die, people will get this barrage of really great this is the reasons why I love you. Type letters that is beautiful, and everyone should do this. Don't wait to get a cancer diagnosis or something else. Once you're right, write a Valentine and then

Siobhan: 31:20

just stick it away until Yeah. Or send you, send it, send it. Tell people why you love them. Yeah, yeah. I always joke that I fall in love all the time. Like, I'm like, oh, like, the chef at my favorite restaurant, I'm like, Well, you know, I'm in love with you, right? Like, you make me you feed me all the time, yeah, I definitely am always in love with you. Or, like, one of my favorite waitresses. Like, I'm like, You're just so cute. Like, I totally am in love it. And people have like, you make it weird. I'm like, I'm good, I hope so, right? Like, I love people. I mean, I sometimes hate that. I love them, but I will, I'll be like, I appreciate you. I love you. Like, I'm always sending, like, I love you text people. I'll tell my favorite customers. I'm like, Have a good week. I love you. Like, be good. Like, right at it, you know? Like, I try to make it weird, right?

Unknown: 32:02

And because you're the one going to call in a week if they don't show up, right? Be like, Hey, are you okay?

Siobhan: 32:07

Yeah, where are you? What's up? Yeah, yeah, yeah, because they'd love this, yeah. And I want more people to be doing it, right? You're I think I would probably write letters every year, and then maybe tuck them away and, like, let them have them later, or when they need it, or when they need it, and be like that. I wrote this to you, like, two years ago, but I think you could use it right now. Like, I think that's kind of a beautiful thing to have in the back pocket. Yeah, your relationship, yes, and it's a good reminder of why you love all those people, right?

Unknown: 32:34

Because I also am one of those people that am done Christmas shopping by October, because all year long. If I find a gift that's perfect for someone, I buy it, I wrap it, and maybe it's a Christmas gift. Maybe it's like, oh, they need something now, right? But the letters are the same. Yeah, that's beautiful. Why don't we tell people the reasons why we like them? Because it makes people uncomfortable.

Siobhan: 32:57

I know when someone starts giving me too many compliments, I'm like, Okay, time out. Let's stop this is too much, yeah, but it shouldn't be that way. It shouldn't. It really shouldn't. And I think people would move through the world happier if they knew why people love them in the world, yeah,

Unknown: 33:13

right, and why they're valued and needed. Do you ever take the train back east at all from here or done it yet, but I would like to at one point. So I've done, I used to do here to Denver all the time, because I grew up in Denver. Family is still in Denver. But I used to say people like, it's too long to take the train, because it's like 36 hours. I mean, it's a bottle of wine and a book. And I think every time I fell in love with somebody, yeah, and maybe that somebody was me, every time I was on the train, yeah, just there's nothing to do to get to the destination.

Siobhan: 33:51

No, I love the idea of it, and I have talked about doing it. I just haven't had the time or cash or, you know, together, but it's something I would love to do, because I love to write. Yeah, I'm like to just be able to sit on the train for a couple hours, like, write, take a nap, watch the scenery go by, have a good conversation, and just do it all again in like little 12 hour spurts. Frank would be so much fun.

Unknown: 34:12

Here's a tip, so when you want to plan your meal for the dining car, always take the last seating, because you can stay there longer, and the people you want to talk to do it, and it can be some of the best conversations of your life. That's a great insider too, because it's a random collage of people, right?

Siobhan: 34:33

It's cabaret seating, yeah? So it's you'll never know who you're gonna get,

Unknown: 34:36

yeah, oh, I love that. And it's just, it's intense, like the intense, like a beautiful sunrise is intense, yeah?

Siobhan: 34:46

That's a great way to maybe meet someone, to have, like, a little meet cute, yeah, fall in love, yeah, yeah.

Unknown: 34:51

And then you have conversations. It's all the best part, because you're traveling so your guards are down, yeah?

Siobhan: 34:58

And you have stuff you have top. Six. You can jump off from right. Where are you going?

Unknown: 35:02

Where? And it's fine, yeah, I'll see you later. I'm never gonna see you again. I don't want your number. I don't even give me a real name, and it's all platonic, Yeah, cuz it's the train.

Siobhan: 35:15

Oh, I love this. Yeah, yes. I'm definitely gonna have to figure out when to go do that, even if I take the train back, have dinner and fly back,

Unknown: 35:23

yeah, or go to Denver, because from here to Boston would just be that too much, and to Chicago, it's too much,

Siobhan: 35:29

yeah, but I still go out and do it. One of my great aunts had a fear of flying, so she would never come out here to this coast. And then she did once, because they took the train out and back, nice. And so they were on the train, I think it was like almost two weeks combined, yeah. But they had an amazing time, yeah. And I was like, someday I'll do that, like, almost in honor of her. Be like, yeah, I took the train just because you would have liked to you should. So I will, at some point, I have a whole list of the things, yeah, because I and one of the reasons, especially the cancer. Like, I want to get back to you and your story about kind of how, because now you're helping other people as

Unknown: 36:05

of last week too, I'm a certified cancer coach, and I'm getting certified in advocacy because you need a guide, and yeah, because you need to know what's coming. You need to know what questions to ask, if you can ask them, right? Mine isn't like your traditional coaching model, like, I'll go to your doctors with you, just for you, I'll have notes and be like. You need to ask this question, right? You need to ask this questions.

Siobhan: 36:37

So was this born out of when you were in Germany with your friend? You told him you you helped him write a survivorship you called it, yeah,

Unknown: 36:43

a survivorship guide. So it started there, but then just slowly evolved into, Hey, my friend has cancer. Can you help them out? Right? Yes. And then I'm really good at taking away people's fear and turning it into curiosity. That's powerful, and I teach you how to research internationally, how to find and cite studies, because Google, Google Scholar, and now all the AIs are really great for finding information. But you need your doctor, and you can't isolate your doctor, because while you might be an expert in yourself, in your type of chemo, they understand the entire body system and the bigger picture. So don't go in there saying, Oh, I'm a Google doctor, right? You're not. And don't isolate your care team or your caregivers. You need them more than they need you. That's true. So like, I'll teach you how to read your blood work and how to look it up. So, you know, Hey, can I change this with my diet? Is this a big red flag that I need to remind the doctor to look at?

Siobhan: 37:52

Yeah, because you do have to advocate for yourself. And when you're sick, it's hard to want to right, and it's hard to know what to advocate for right?

Unknown: 38:01

And I can teach not only the patient, but like the family and their caregiver, like I usually say one other person, because otherwise it gets too much. But yeah, because you need someone to say, Oh, you can do this. Because most people go through chemo and they get six maybe 12 rounds, and then they're done. So they don't really know that, hey, that's wrong. That's not standard of care. It needs to be done this way. And there's a lot of groups that don't want to do standard of care. They want to get you in, get you out, right? So if you're not comfortable where you're being seen, if you can change and don't worry about it's gonna hurt the doctor's feelings. It won't because, just because that person's not good for you, it'll be perfect for somebody else, right? So don't worry about hurting friendships or feelings, right?

Siobhan: 38:52

Well, yeah, and your doctor should be your doctor, not your friend, exactly. I mean, you should be able to be friendly with your doctor, right? They should your friendship shouldn't be over your health, right?

Unknown: 39:00

And honestly, the nurses gather more information from you than the doctors do, because you see our nurses more. There's a different, jovial relationship with them, yeah, but if your doctor wants you to visit the nurse practitioner or the other not quite doctor, I can't think of the PA, the PA, the PA, the physician's assistant, they have more time to talk to you so and they're just as qualified, and everything goes up to the oncologist. Everything you says goes into your chart. So right? Be aware of that, but talk to everyone, and just because you're talking to the PA does not mean you're getting a less of a person or less of a diagnosis, right? They have more time,

Siobhan: 39:44

yeah, and sometimes they can come up with solutions that the doctor may not right, and they're out of yet because they're doing more research, or they're doing they're talking to more people, right?

Unknown: 39:53

And they know more of your symptoms because you're talking more to them. It's not like 15 minutes doing business, right? So talk to the. Entire team, because you need that entire team, and you're not getting a less of a cancer experience than just seeing the oncologist.

Siobhan: 40:09

So you it's what, almost it's what, 12 years later, 1111, years later, 11 years And do you still have it like do they still tell you they don't know how long you have?

Unknown: 40:24

Well, now I'm stable, stable,

Siobhan: 40:26

and I'm on a break. You're living with cancer. I'm

Unknown: 40:28

living with cancer, but my security blanket is gone. Of hey, maybe I can have an extra drink, because I never quit drinking alcohol. Okay? Because I know that I have this backup of keeping that protein in check, but it got to the point where I would weep the night before treatment because I didn't want it anymore, like, and that probably was going on for five years, like, I just, I can't do it. I cannot keep doing this, right?

Siobhan: 40:58

Because how often do you still have to get treatments three

Unknown: 41:01

weeks every three weeks, wow. But now I haven't been since April, okay? And I miss my nurses. I miss the admissions people, because I would see them more than friends and family, because I literally spent eight hours a week at the doctors for 10 years. Yeah?

Siobhan: 41:22

So those people become your right? It's almost like your work family, yeah, yeah. Those have to be hard, hard things to miss. Yeah?

Unknown: 41:33

Like, you don't want to see them, but you do, yeah. So it's hard, it's hard to be on a break, much harder than I thought it

Siobhan: 41:40

would be. And how long do you get to take a break for, until you get a

Unknown: 41:43

bad scan, okay? Or until nervousness comes in and, like, I want to go back on treatment, okay?

Siobhan: 41:50

But that's like a you're always weighing decision, like, that's heavy to have on yourself kind of all the time. Yeah, Does it still feel heavy, or is it just kind of become normal life.

Unknown: 42:01

It becomes normal life. But now I've got to start thinking of, oh my god, I might not die. So now I've got to rebuild the coffers, because 10 years of chemo is expensive. It's Oh my god, expensive because, you know, I was doing acupuncture on the side, yeah, supplements on the side, different, you know, a gym, I haven't worked full time in 10 years, right?

Siobhan: 42:27

Yeah, you can't if you're going in for treatments. Okay? Weeks? Yeah, wow.

Unknown: 42:32

And I feel bad right now with the rising medical class for next year, yeah?

Siobhan: 42:37

And insurance just trying not to pay for anything, right?

Unknown: 42:40

And then people on Medicare, Medicaid, yeah? Like,

Siobhan: 42:44

it's scary to think that we have all of these advancements right, and all of these miracles sitting around, but we want to the barrier to entry. We're just kind of making bigger and bigger and bigger, right?

Unknown: 42:55

And then you're looking at these record level profits, yep, for pharmaceutical companies. And then you realize, why is my medicine here $80,000 every three weeks, but in Germany, it's 3000 right? And people don't understand that's the disparity we're talking about. Like, yeah, in there's no reason. Yeah, there isn't. Why am I going bankrupt when you're not?

Siobhan: 43:16

Yeah, it's just greed. It is, and it's there's no way around it.

Unknown: 43:20

No, I want the innovation to still come. But do we have to have that much of a difference, right?

Siobhan: 43:27

Yeah, when you are getting a golden parachute, or you're getting millions and millions of dollars in a bonus, and your your employees don't have dental, right? Don't have insurance, or can't or have three jobs, right?

Unknown: 43:39

Or if you get a grant from the government to do this medicine, and then you charge full price, yes, so we're paying for it twice.

Siobhan: 43:47

Yeah, I think most people don't realize that. I know when I learned that, I was like, Wait a second, our taxpayers tax money pays for all of the research, right? All of the R and D, like, all of it, and then they get to charge us to buy the stuff that they happen to be able to create because we paid them to create it right, like they should not be making that much profit off they should not, because they're using our money to make it right. So how are we paying for all of it? And they get all of the proceeds, yeah? Where's the investment for the government? Right? Where's the return on investment? No business, no business has no return on investments, right? So it's crazy,

Unknown: 44:27

and we need to go back to that model. And I do think Trump's doing a good thing, holding right now. He's doing the chip companies and social media to make them responsible. And if you got loan from us, we did 10% of the company right?

Siobhan: 44:42

I've been on a bit of a news diet recently.

Unknown: 44:46

I feel bad for so I travel all over the country, like this year, I was three months in Colorado, and I would drive back and forth, and I would go to a diner and talk with people I would like say. May I sit with you? Or please sit with me. We got to talk politics. I love this and because the news feeds are different everywhere in the country, right? But as for those Maga people in the country, they want exactly what we want. Well, yeah, but it's presented differently, and we have to come back together, and we've got to get the media out of this diversification

Siobhan: 45:24

right, and the visit Ness, I can never get that word, because I hate it, the divisiveness of people. Like, I don't understand when people started to be on a team, right? And like, but the team's not human, right? It's like a thing, an inanimate thing, right? Or like a color, or like a political like, people used to have politics, but they weren't the politician, like, or, right? They weren't the whole idea, right? Like, you would have different let's get to this place, and we had different ways of getting there, but it wasn't like you're an awful person, because you don't think that the way I want to get there is good, right? And now it's like, I don't I disagree with you, and so now you're a terrible person, right?

Unknown: 46:06

Politics is not a zero sum game. No, this government shutdown because of political party lines is crazy, right? Do your job,

Siobhan: 46:14

right, and if you don't want to do your job, get out of the way and let someone that wants to

Unknown: 46:18

do it do it right. And people need to vote for where they're at, not where they want to

Siobhan: 46:22

be, right? Like, yeah, someone not voting in their best interest is also crazy to me, right? Or being a one issue voter, right? I understand that. That means a lot to you. But if that comes at the expense of all of these other things, is it really the most important thing to you, right? Like, or that's it. That's the one thing that you care about. You don't care about all of this other stuff, yeah. Like, and no matter what you leaning on, like, step back and look at the bigger picture. Yeah. And is it good for everybody? Yeah, we all compromise, right?

Unknown: 46:50

Like, justice is the greatest good for the greatest number of people, right?

Siobhan: 46:54

And it just because it makes it slightly inconvenient for you, doesn't make it wrong, right? Like, I just when people get so nasty too, right? Like, you all want the same thing, right?

Unknown: 47:08

And if people like broke down how much the health care for everyone around them costs versus what we pay in subsidies to corporations, yeah. Why are you mad at your neighbor getting heart surgery? Right? I mean, seriously, yeah, it costs you $1 a day for your neighbor to have heart surgery, which you you're gonna need soon too, right?

Siobhan: 47:32

You're gonna want access to all of this medicine when it's your turn, but you want to prevent someone else from having it, right? Because then you think you won't get it, but if you're preventing them to get it. You're preventing yourself from getting it, yeah? Like it's not pie, right?

Unknown: 47:45

And it's $1 or maybe it's $200 a year, or $2 a day, so $700 a year in the taxes you're already paying, right? Goes for really good stuff Head Start. Yeah? Why would you not want kids to be prepared to learn, right?

Siobhan: 48:02

Or learn how to be good humans, right?

Unknown: 48:05

Or an apple, right? Why would you begrudge a child an apple?

Siobhan: 48:09

Yeah, and when you like, can distill it down to that. There's nobody that can. I don't think there's anyone that can argue with it. But somehow, there's still people that are like but that kid should get an apple from their own Bootstrap or, you know, they're like, right? Come up with some ridiculous kind of right reason why they're not being unreasonable,

Unknown: 48:28

like, what happened to empathy? I don't know.

Siobhan: 48:32

I think not enough people, and it sounds weird, but not enough people have struggled because, right, they are. So many people have gotten to to a point that they're so entitled, and they haven't had a rough spot in their life, so they haven't had to come back from something. They're so ignorant, yeah? So they just think life is easy and everyone should be as good as they are. And it's like, no, but you're born on second base or third base, or you haven't even, you didn't even get up to home plate to bat yet, right? And your life is hard.

Unknown: 49:01

This is also why I got into cancer coaching, is people didn't know what to expect, and they were taking less than they should, to the point like it was harming themselves. Like, no, you have to take five extra minutes and talk to the doctor about this. You have to tell them what your symptoms are. Like, don't be overly gracious, because you have insurance. They have all the medicine to help you. You have to, we have to have enough backbone to stand up for yourself. Yeah?

Siobhan: 49:30

The advocacy part of it of saying, like, okay, but this is also happening. And how do we take care of this? Part of this Yeah, symptom, and some of those symptoms can inform them that something is really wrong, or Yeah, or working

Unknown: 49:43

right, because you might have an infection, right, and you're causing yourself harm, and it all it takes is a minute out of your day. So it's the same thing, instead of money, we're talking about time, yeah, and for the most part, most people in the healthcare system have empathy. So. Yeah, there's a lot of people whose jobs are better off if they don't have empathy, like your surgeon needs to not see you as a person in order to cut into you, to take out the cancer, right? Right? Your oncologist shouldn't have a lot of empathy. They should be compassionate, but you want them to deal with the cancer, not necessarily you right, and that's where the rest of the team takes care of the individual, but the oncologist is there to kill the cancer. Yeah, not hold your hands, right? But you want, you want good bedside manner, but they can't do both, right, and they shouldn't.

Siobhan: 50:36

Yeah, that's a lot of it's a lot of emotional weight to have to carry when, especially when you're seeing, how many patients do they see a day, right? Sometimes 20 a day, yeah, that are all possibly dying, yeah? And they're trying to manage all of making sure their medicines are all specifically Correct, correct. Like, yeah, let them use their brain power on that, and not asking me about my dog, right?

Unknown: 50:57

And also, do you as a patient have to be able to tell your doctor what your symptoms are, not your caregiver, because that's not their job, and be nice to your caregivers. You need them more than they need you. So I always advocate that at the beginning, if it's a spouse or sibling, you tell them which days they can have two days off, two nights off every week to do whatever they want, if they want to go out and get drunk, yeah, that's their thing, if they want to go out and meet up with friends or sit on the beach and cry. Because also, as the cancer patient, you need alone time too to process, right? And you don't need people hovering all the time, but you need to be able to tell your doctor, I have these symptoms, and then the caregiver can say, Oh, yes, you forgot this one, right? But you cannot give away your power to other people, yeah,

Siobhan: 51:51

because you're they're not the ones fighting it you are, right? So if you can't even stand up for you in that room, how are you standing up in your own body? Correct? That's heavy, yeah,

Unknown: 52:01

like, for some of my clients, depending where they are, because I specialize in metastatic, okay, it's one of those things we get used to looking in the mirror and saying, I am going to die. Because the minute you accept it, your whole world explodes and opens up because you're no longer like closing your eyes to it, and literally, like not seeing your options and not seeing what you have to do, and the last thing you want to do is be on that deathbed with regrets, right?

Siobhan: 52:33

Yeah, I imagine it puts everything, kind of into a sharper focus does. And once you can kind of, I imagine, if you can accept it, then it's now, what? What am I going to do with the time that I have?

Unknown: 52:44

Right? What do I need to do? What do I want to do? Right? The burden, it just loosens your burden. And it's morbid in a way, but the moment you accept it, like, Yeah, I'm gonna die, gonna die sooner. I know what's going to kill me, right?

Siobhan: 53:04

But then I mean, 11 years later, it hasn't killed you. Now you have a whole new set of problems. I do because how do you let How do you live? How do you go from the survival to the thriving?

Unknown: 53:16

Can I go? My biggest thing right now is I used to sleep 10 to 1214, hours every day. And now I go to bed early, but I'm not falling asleep like, oh, and then put my days aren't busy enough to fill up 14 hours when I'm used to filling up 10 hours, right? And now I'm like, and I have 16 hours, and then you're like, how much energy do I have? Because in the past, I wouldn't want to start a project that I wasn't able to finish, right? And now I'm like, Oh, maybe I can do it, but then I still have really bad days, and then I'm in bed, I'm like, oh, I should not have started that, but, but you don't know, right? And it's frustrating. I it's,

Siobhan: 54:01

it's a that's even more of a complex problem, almost, right? Because you don't want to be doing things that you're feeling like you're never going to finish, because then it's just that's a frustration, right? But then you want to not be doing nothing, right? Then you're squandering the time. It feels like now you have all this extra time and you want to make the most of it, yeah, but you might feel like shit tomorrow. So what do you start like,

Unknown: 54:26

like, do you go back to work full time and take on those commitments,

Siobhan: 54:30

and then what happens if you have a couple bad days?

Unknown: 54:33

Or what happens when it recurs, right? Or when it recurs because it's going to it's just, did I falsely present myself to companies, right? Did I not? Am I babying myself too much? And like, in my situation, I don't have any peers, like, there's nobody to call. I've called Genentech to try to talk to the nurses. I'm like, Could you look to see if there's anybody at this level? Right? Yeah. And they're like, Yeah, once people don't do treatment anymore, we don't follow them. Well, don't you think you

Siobhan: 55:06

should, right? Isn't there a lot of data in there that could be helpful? One would think so. Like, how long after?

Unknown: 55:13

Like, maybe not for Genentech, but for the doctors, absolutely right? And because now treatments are going to they want you in treatment the rest of

Siobhan: 55:21

your life. Well, that's how they will make their money, right? And is

Unknown: 55:25

that right or fair? And then at that point, don't they want to talk to me, because I've been on it as far as, like, 1% right?

Siobhan: 55:33

What's the long term side effects? What are you dealing with? Still? What could they make you making better for? Because it's unfortunately, like you are the first in this, but they will be more like you, right? Because more people will get this type of cancer and have these kind of results and continue to live past when they thought they would, yeah, hopefully. I mean, yeah, that's their that. I'm sure that's their goal. That's our goal, yeah. So yeah, why wouldn't they want to be kind of following along, yeah, you're their number one consumer, right?

Unknown: 56:03

You should be getting made a lot of money. I was the golden goose, yeah?

Siobhan: 56:07

And now they're trying to line up to have other people be their geese, right?

Unknown: 56:11

They would. Why aren't those people asking, right, and making the demand and once it comes around. But you know, people, when they get cancer diagnosis, they really just get on that conveyor belt, the majority of people, and they don't ask, and they don't say, why aren't we doing this? So to go back to, like, the studies and how I help people, I'm like, so three days before you go to the doctor, you send them a list of all of your questions and your studies. Like, Hey, I saw this out of Brazil. I like these three things. And then you include the article in that email, right? So then the doctor can read it. They know that you're not just pulling something out of thin air. Like, is this an option? Because they're busy, they might not have seen the latest

Siobhan: 57:00

research studies, yeah, and there's stuff going on all over the world. So they can't, they can't, can't assume they're going to know everything from everywhere, no, especially because they're grinding in their job every

Unknown: 57:11

day, right? And you're an expert in you and your type of cancer, right? They're experts in a more general way, like breast cancer is usually just breast cancer doctors, but yeah,

Siobhan: 57:24

it's, how did you figure this all out? Is it just because you are, like, what was your Yeah, like, what was your education? I mean, you were going to be a sommelier. So I know that you can do kind of detail work and write research, and

Unknown: 57:43

I'd like that. But also it came about that I had friends. I went to a Japanese university. So my friends are

Siobhan: 57:50

all over the world. That's amazing.

Unknown: 57:53

So people said, like, hey, I'll look up in Japan, what's going on, right? People in Brazil was looking stuff up. And my friends in Australia, Germany and Poland. So I'm like, wow, everybody should be doing this, yeah. And then, you know, I worked for I was either going to become a lawyer, there we go. And then it was $200,000 to get a law degree, right? And then I'm like, wonder how much it cost you'd be a master Psalm. And it's like 100 grand master Psalms make more money than your average lawyer. Yep, and it's a much better lifestyle.

Siobhan: 58:26

Yes, it's drinking wine for a living,

Unknown: 58:29

but you go and you work for resorts, yeah, all over the world, yeah, and it's not solving people's problems. You're not in trial, although I did want to be a litigator, and it's just, oh my god, this is so much better, yeah, and, but it was really a group of my friends helped me realize we need more of this, right? And then my oncologists are like, Oh my god, I love it when people then you help people prepare for their appointments, because they have a question, and when I also teach them terminology, because if you don't know the terminology and the vocabulary, you can't have an Intel intellectual conversation with your doctor, right?

Siobhan: 59:10

Yeah, it's and it's overwhelming, because there's so many things to learn when you go in and, like, I went to nursing school, and still, when I was going through some of the stuff, I was like, Wait, what are we talking about? What are we doing, where, right? And I went to massage school, so I anatomy and physiology, I was well versed in. And still was like, Wait a second, I don't understand that. Like, wait, what are we talking about now? And it was confusing, yeah, and I felt like I was familiar with the material,

Unknown: 59:36

yeah, and, and you're sick, yeah, and you're you've got brain fog. Yes. One thing I found I probably shouldn't say this, but the best thing for me because I did everything on my own, I started taking Ritalin initially for doctors visits, so I could be awake and focused. But fatigue is my number two side effect. So. I take extended release Ritalin now every day. Yeah, and it has changed my life, because I would not get out of bed if it weren't for Ritalin, wow.

Siobhan: 1:00:09

Well, no, I mean, it's, I think it gets a bad rap, because so many people use it for recreational and students use it just to kind of get by when they don't need it. But when you need it, it is a life changing thing, right?

Unknown: 1:00:20

And there's a learning curve. Yeah, I don't think children should be on this drug, because I didn't like it at first. It took me six months to a year to get used

Siobhan: 1:00:32

to it, yeah, yeah, because it changes everything, right?

Unknown: 1:00:35

And then I also found out this is how people get PhDs. Yes, that some people have this focus.

Siobhan: 1:00:42

Yeah, some people don't even need Ritalin for that, right? What I understand, I don't believe it, but Right?

Unknown: 1:00:47

And just for that focus to sit and be able to work for five hours?

Siobhan: 1:00:50

Yeah, it's incredible. I have used it a few times because I have ADHD and I a couple of friends were like, try this. And I was like, Do you know you can just sit down and work, right? I didn't have to clean my apartment. I have to do, like, I got so much work done, yeah? And I was like, and I wanted to keep working after six hours, yeah? And I was like, I That's amazing, right? Yeah, I need to go to the doctor's stat, like, yeah.

Unknown: 1:01:16

And, well, like, AI with off label drugs, yep, quality of life for cancer patients is going to get incredible. It's going to be really good.

Siobhan: 1:01:26

Are you a big proponent of supplements and dietary

Unknown: 1:01:33

I am. I'm not like if you're going to do it, you have to buy high quality right? Because now they're saying sugar, cancer does not come from sugar. Sugar does not bring cancer to you, okay? But they're now saying supplements are hard on the body, and this is my opinion. It's not in any scientific fact, I would assume that's because your bodily your internal organs are already suffering, and then, depending on what's in that supplement, it could really harm your liver, right, or your esophagus and your stomach.

Siobhan: 1:02:15

So, yeah, because it's your body now processing another thing, right?

Unknown: 1:02:20

And beyond, like vitamin D, if Why aren't you getting it from food? And another thing is, most people are only in chemo for three months, maybe six months. You can go six months without really damaging your body without certain supplements and nutrition, right? I lived literally on dark chocolate, avocados and eggs, coffee, red wine for five years. Wow. And by red wine, I mean, like, an ounce, like, I just, I wanted to taste it. I wanted to, I wanted the ritual at night to sit with my book and have it, and I would say, I don't think that I drank it all right. On the other hand, there is something about alcohol aged in oak that alleviated my watery eyes and ruddy nose, interesting, and it was less harmful on my liver than an antihistamine. So, and it wasn't a lot. There was just something about the histamines in it, right, that for me, offset it. And I did have one oncologist say it might work for you, because I would always ask, What's one thing that will benefit me that you probably shouldn't tell me. That's a really great question. It's a great question.

Siobhan: 1:03:53

That's a really great question. Yeah,

Unknown: 1:03:55

like, you know it's better on your body than Claritin or right? One thing else I absolutely love, and swear by edibles. Yeah, I do not like being stoned. I hate it, but Kiva blueberries, here's a shout out for you. They're made with hash, and I have unbelievable joint pain. And for you people just listening to us like my eyes are watering up, like, yeah, my pain is so fucking unreal six months on a break that it's just there's, it's relentless, and you can't take a leave every day, and you can't take opiates every day, and edibles, yeah, not only to what help you sleep through the night. For me, it gives me a little bit of euphoria, but the pain, yeah, because also you don't want the medicines. You don't want the havoc on your bowels that those medicines caused,

Siobhan: 1:04:52

yep, when I was coming off all of my pain medicine from my neck injury, I started using edibles. Yeah, and you. People would be it was always interesting to see the difference, because they'd be like, Oh, you're just high. I'm like, Yes, but I'm not high on opiates, right? And there was more judgment for me being stoned than for me being on opiates, right? But I'm like, but on opiates, I wouldn't leave my couch. And I'm here because I'm just slightly stoned, right? And I can think more clearly, and I know that my reactions are mine and not because of my should I be taking a pill? Is it almost time to take a pill? Can I take another pill? When can I like, it wasn't my addiction to the opiates, right, and like, the up and down that it does to your emotions, right? It was like the steadiness of I am a little stoned, so, like, I'm a little like, but I'm not zigzagging right and distracted by the can I take another pill that's not really helping my pain, even though I think it should be. Yeah?

Unknown: 1:05:53

So I have a great story. I was just in Boston this weekend, this past weekend, and I walked the Freedom Trail. It says what? It's three miles. Yeah, it was 14 miles. You're gonna love it. It's so much to see. It's so fun, but it's all on concrete. Yes, it's on cobblestone, right? And I went, I didn't fly with any edibles, because you shouldn't do that, right? And I didn't realize they were legal, so I was the next night, the next day, I woke up and I could barely move. I'm like, Oh my God. Like, I do not want this pain again.

Siobhan: 1:06:29

When's the last time you walked 14 miles in a day?

Unknown: 1:06:33

It's been a long time, yeah, and not knowing that I'd walked 14 miles, right? Like, it was a great day, yeah. So I walked by this place. I'm like, oh my god, do you guys really have edibles? And they're like, yeah. So I go in, and I was just there for one night, one more night. So I'm like, I just want one or two. I don't want to buy package of 20, right? So I go out and I'm leaving, and the secure guys, like, you didn't buy anything, like, well, I'm only here one more night. I just want, like, four or five, one or he goes buy the cookies. I'm like, what cookies? So you go back in. He's like, give her the cookies. The girl's like, well, she said she wanted one or two. And he's like, these are five versus 20. Like, read it together. Yeah, that

Siobhan: 1:07:17

security God should be a budtender. That's what I said.

Unknown: 1:07:19

I'm like, Oh, my God, you should be in there, right? So I was walking back to the hotel, and I went to open the package, and I couldn't the plastic broke off of it, so I walked by a flower vendor that was packing up for the night, yeah, nice young gentleman to help me open the package. And I'm like, Hey, I just want to do you want the rest you know that they're safe. I just opened it, and his whole face lit up. He's like, really? I'm like, take them, because I'm just gonna leave him in the hotel room, right? Oh, that was sweet. Yeah, this on the next morning. He's waving right on. But edibles do don't not do edibles because you don't like marijuana, right? Try them. And honestly, I hadn't done any marijuana before getting cancer, and

Siobhan: 1:08:04

we know that because you just said I haven't done any marijuana, right?

Unknown: 1:08:09

And I still do. People give me bud all the time. I'm like, What am I gonna do with this? I'm not gonna smoke it now. You can give it to me. Seriously, I have a bunch because and they're like, Well, you can make your own edibles. I'm like, No, I like the Kiva because you know exactly how much you're getting, right? Yeah. And it's not like having a bite of a brownie and you got 100 milligrams on one bite. Yeah?

Siobhan: 1:08:32

See, I do kind of like the roulette of making my own at times. Oh, but those are for like, a Sunday afternoon when I'm not going anywhere, like, if I have to be out in the world, then yes, like, I'll take a Kiva is a brand I really like. Wild is another brand that I really like. They have a raspberry sativa that I love to use before I work out, because it gives this it's just got a little burst of energy in it. With the sativa that they have, it's really great for that, and not sponsors, but you can be right

Unknown: 1:09:02

and ask your budtender, yep. Say I want them for sleep, yeah. I want them for this, yeah.

Siobhan: 1:09:09

I want them to help me eat. I want them to help me not eat, because the different terpenes in different products will help your body do different right. I want my brain to slow down, yep, and yeah, if you find a good shop. They, the people that work there are very, what we call a heady and they will tell you all of it, yeah, and they different products are for different things. There's a couple Mary, Mary's medicals, I think it's called, they have great patches. So if you have, like, a joint that's really bad, they have patches that you can put on. They'll have a little bit of lidocaine, CBD and THC in them that can really help with joint pain. I had no idea they make some really good bombs for muscle pain, nerve pain. So there's like, tons of products out there that are really, really great for it, right?

Unknown: 1:09:53

So I was responsible for getting not Steve Alvarez, do you know him? He was one. I think his last name is Alvarez. He was the guy in California lobbying to get medical marijuana legal, and then just into recreational Oh, okay, and I was at a restaurant, and he was there. I was a hostess at a restaurant, and I walked up to the table. I'm like, I have to interrupt you. I understand that you're here. It was the commission to get marijuana legal, okay? And I'm like, I broke down in tears. I'm like, It's changed my life. This stuff has to be legal, yeah? Like, seriously, if it's cruel that it's not, and I was literally in tears, and I am not a pretty crier, and they're like, seriously, like, Steve's like, I don't know who this girl is, right, don't know. And I'm like, seriously, here's my port. I'm not lying. Like, yeah, wow, it is. And do not judge anybody doing it, yeah,

Siobhan: 1:10:51

oh yeah, no. Like, a couple people in my journey when I was, especially when I was first coming off everything, people are like, oh yeah. You just always and now I joke about, I'm like, Yeah, weed is my signature scent, right? Okay with it, right? Like, I deal with pain all the time, too. And like, sometimes I've been trying to help figure out how to describe it to someone. And like, when you have pain that's on, like, a spectrum, some days it's like someone's just humming in my ear, and it's annoying, but I can block it out, yeah. And other days, it's like, there's a five year old screaming at the top of their lungs in my ear, and I cannot think about anything else other than how much pain I'm in, yeah? And I'll be talking to someone, and I'm like, I have no idea what you just said to me, yeah, because I'm trying to pay attention to you, but all I can hear is like, yeah, and I can't nothing else is gonna, like, distract

Unknown: 1:11:36

it, right? And mindful meditation works to a point, yeah, but then it doesn't.

Siobhan: 1:11:41

Yeah, some days there's just nothing that works other than crawling back into my bed and being like, I can't. I'm not going to do this today, right? And I hate when those moments happen, because then I feel like I'm weak and I feel like I am, like, being a baby, and then other times, I'm like, I used to not leave my house for days, yeah, because my pain would be so bad, I would be in my bed with all the lights off in complete silence and darkness. And like, I've come so far, like, if I have a bad day, I can have a bad day, right? And it's like not being judgy of it, right?

Unknown: 1:12:09

And pain presents itself outwardly or and inwardly different, like, it's not like you wake up in your legs are achy, like you could just be in a bad mood and not know it, yeah, I know if I swear a lot I'm in pain, yeah, because you learn to overwrite it, yeah. And then that's when it gets really scary. Yeah? Cuz, yeah, road rage comes out this way. Oh, yeah. Like, just overreacting, drastically overreacting,

Siobhan: 1:12:43

yeah, yeah. And sometimes you do forget that, like your mood is and then I will, because you do block it out, yeah, you come to a certain point where you can kind of just block it out, and then it's like, all of a sudden it creeps up, and you're like, Oh yeah, that is killing me. Like, that's why I've been such a bitch all day. Yeah? And it's like, what? How did I not realize that it's because my neck is extra stiff today and I can't really turn or my hand is not working as well for those are, like, my little symptoms that, like, I will just be like, I haven't been able to, like, do this all day. I can't get anything open today, yeah? And I'm like, oh, it's because my hand is numb and I can't everything hurts there. So where do you have neuropathy from my neck down into my right hand and then down into behind my shoulder blade? So I used to lose all of the feeling in my right hand, and it would, like, basically just go dead. And I would drop stuff and be like, Oh, that's on the floor now, right? And he can't pick it up. I can't pick it up. And I can't, like, I can't hold a pen very much if I start to write by like, the third sentence, it looks like a five year old, yeah, because I can't keep the grip, and it's painful, right?

Unknown: 1:13:47

And then here's stuff they don't tell you about gabapentin, because my whole body just and then, like, I'm really not feeling my feet that much anymore. Oh, yeah, but it deadens all of your nerves. So sex sucks, or it's harder to orgasm. They don't tell you this. You can do it. Keep at it, but then you need a

Siobhan: 1:14:11

really good lover, yeah? Because who's patient and willing, yeah?

Unknown: 1:14:17

So I don't know if that's the blessing of neuropathy or the curse or of Gabapentin? Yeah, because you're not going off Gabapentin so you can have a better orgasm. No, you're not. But God, wouldn't that be nice? Yeah, that one and one thing about a cancer coach too is you get to ask your cancer coach, especially me, because I'm kind of like a coach, mentor, consultant. I'll tell you anything, right?

Siobhan: 1:14:45

Well, that's how I think you need to be, because who else is going to tell you, right? Or give you the insider information like that or like because someone might be on GABA Fenton and not even realize that, that's why their sex drive is gone, right? Because they probably think it's like chemo medicine, where it's like, no, it's not the chemo. It's this one. Right?

Unknown: 1:15:00

And then the lack of estrogen in your body, and the feeling of pins and needles and just straight up glass crushed in your vagina, and it's like you got to ease your women back into this slowly, like we want to have sex, we don't want to cringe and pull away, but you got to work with us, right,

Siobhan: 1:15:22

especially because if you can get to that point, those endorphins will help you feel better.

Unknown: 1:15:26

Oh, and then the orgasm is incredible, right? Once you work through it, yeah?

Siobhan: 1:15:29

And I'm sure once you kind of gotten through it a few times, it's easier to kind of get back into it, yeah, and then stay into it, right?

Unknown: 1:15:35

But men do not leave your wives because she doesn't want sex she does, right? You got to help her work her body

Siobhan: 1:15:43

right, do the dishes. That will start it right.

Unknown: 1:15:46

And, like, smack her ass in the morning, right? Because it takes your law, your body longer to warm up. Yeah, and prepare, yeah. Let her know that you're thinking about her all day. Flirt, yeah, flirt, smack, kiss her on the ear and then walk away. Make her attack you, right? Like, what happened to seduction?

Siobhan: 1:16:02

I don't know. I think in all of life, yeah, well, I think too, because you can, like, DoorDash Dick, or whatever you were into that day, right? You can, you'll, you could find someone to come over. Did you

Unknown: 1:16:12

just say DoorDash dick? Yes, can you DoorDash This is, yeah.

Siobhan: 1:16:15

Well, like, young, I mean, like, yeah, the Tinder, that's what they Oh, that basically, to me, is door dashing dick. Oh, my God, that's fabulous. Like, when I was young, we would never tell someone where we live, and now these people will just like, be like, yeah, come over. Like, here's my and people, I do not recommend it.

Unknown: 1:16:34

Oh, and lock up your meds. Here's the bad thing. Oh, yes, I've had people steal my meds. Yeah, who steals pain meds from a cancer patient?

Siobhan: 1:16:43

There's a lot of them. Yeah, people will do it. I used to hide my meds too, because everybody knew I was on, I was on all kinds of shit. But then you hide your meds and then you lose them. Yep, I used to find them in the right randomized places. And like, why are these here? Right? Oh, yeah, cuz so and so was coming over, and I stuffed them so no one would be able to

Unknown: 1:16:59

I finally got to save, yeah, smart, because you can't, you can't, you can't leave them where you need them, right?

Siobhan: 1:17:08

Yeah, I had someone come into my house once when I wasn't home, and I, when I came home, they had just come in. They were supposed to be meeting me, but I used to leave my door unlocked, and I come in my house and they were already in my house, and they were in my bathroom. And I was like, What are we doing? Because they lived across the street, so why would you come into my house to use the bathroom? I'm from Colorado. And I was just like, I'd shoot him. I was just like, all right, like, I'm pretty sure he was in there looking for my drugs, but I'm not stupid enough to leave all my drugs in the bathroom, right? Like, how did he get into your house? My door was unlocked. My we when I lived, I lived in New York for almost 10 years, in upstate, and I didn't even have a key to my house when I bought it. Yeah, I'm like, you live in Oakland? It didn't lock your door. No, I lived up it's just really small, one stoplight town in New York for almost 10 years, and we did not have a house key. Yeah, until we went to sell it, we had to have locks put in. Wow, yeah, I never had a key to that house, yeah, the entire time. Yeah?

Unknown: 1:18:04

Like, I lock stuff up all the time now I have cameras for when I leave. Yeah, because stuff disappears.

Siobhan: 1:18:11

Yeah, and you do have to be a special kind of asshole to steal meds from a cancer patient or from anyone.

Unknown: 1:18:17

Well, yes, especially prescription. Yeah, if you don't have a prescription, you don't need it, right?

Siobhan: 1:18:23

Yeah, yeah, that's and just go buy them. You can buy them somewhere, yeah, right. There's enough out there, right? You don't have to steal them from someone that needs them, right? You don't. How many patients do you see now? Like, or, I guess, clients, not patients.

Unknown: 1:18:43

Um, it varies. Probably the best way to say is 50 to 100 a year, okay, at any given time, right? Because I'm also one of those people, like, I'm not your coach. Forever. If we have six, 812, sessions, then we can talk about it right? But no, I'm here to teach you how to do it and live with it right, and then go do it right. And then we can do a one off here and there when you really need to talk right?

Siobhan: 1:19:17

Um, that's like a it's almost like a grief counselor. You see me when you need me, and then you should be able to go off and do this right. Like it should be. It's a specific kind of treatment for this long and right, I'm gonna coach you through this, and then you're gonna go off and right.

Unknown: 1:19:32

Like, use me as a coach, Sarah at living before dying.com. But then find a support group and make your own peer support group, because you need peers.

Siobhan: 1:19:46

Yeah, it has to be lonely to be what like you like you don't have.

Unknown: 1:19:51

I have some really good, great girlfriends, right?

Siobhan: 1:19:56

That's like, oh, okay,

Unknown: 1:19:58

because a lot of people aren't dying. Yeah. Yeah, like for my cancer. Have you watched Firefly lane? I have not. Okay, so it's this great sitcom, and they don't tell you that the woman gets cancer and dies, but it's my exact cancer. Oh, and it was so triggering. People don't think about this. There's no cancer label warning on a movie or a TV show. So you're sitting there and you're watching it, and then suddenly somebody gets a cancer diagnosis, and you're triggered, and you're watching with friends, and you're like, oh my god, I gotta turn it off. And then you don't. So then it's even more terrifying, because you're kind of working through it, but you're not working through it. And like, more shows need to have a warning for cancer,

Siobhan: 1:20:45

wow, or Yeah, I never thought of

Unknown: 1:20:49

that, yeah, because it's really awful.

Siobhan: 1:20:53

That's gonna be like, gut punching, especially when they die.

Unknown: 1:20:55

Like, well, it's a comedy, right? Oh, they're just like, oh, because you quit watching the show, and all you're doing is now thinking, Oh, my God, this, this could be me. This is me. Why am I alive? And she had died,

Siobhan: 1:21:10

and then there's got to be, like, a level of survivor's guilt, kind of, I

Unknown: 1:21:18

don't know if I have survivors guilt. I mean, definitely, but there's got to be a better term, right? Yeah, that's why I was, yeah, because it's more like I'm lost. I don't feel guilty. But yeah, why me? It? Did I get a gift that I now need to

Siobhan: 1:21:36

give back? Well, it's kind of what you are doing.

Unknown: 1:21:40

It's so hard not to run away from cancer on this break. I'm like, part of it was, I'm going to do this because I'm never going to get out of the cancer world, right? And now it's like, oh, could I get out of this cancer world? Oh, and it is. It can be triggering. So it's like, do I need a constant reminder of where I was and where I'm going to be again soon. And that's why you don't get a lot of cancer coaches with experience. Because how many soldiers want to go back to war, right? I mean, once you're out for a while that you don't you want to run so far away from war, or it's the

Siobhan: 1:22:16

worst thing that's happened to you, you want to put it behind you, right? And by doing what you're doing, it's in front of you every day, right? That has to be a level of exhaustion.

Unknown: 1:22:24

It is a level of exhaustion that is a great way to put that, yeah, because also it's a choice to do it. It needs to be done because your cancer journey will be much better with whether it's an advocate or a coach or a mentor, you need it, right? And you need somebody who's going to be straight with you. Yeah, it's like, no, if you're not out of the woods yet, just like, kiss them on the forehead and be like you got like, the half life of chemo is they might say it's going to take six months, if you had a year of chemo, takes six months to get out of your system, right? That's not true, yeah? Because maybe it's out of your system, but it's not

Siobhan: 1:23:10

out of your brain, it's not out of your muscle memory either, right? Like your body really does keep the score. I talk about that book a lot, but I think it's a great book, yeah? And I think it helps you to understand the way your body holds on to things. Oh my gosh.

Unknown: 1:23:23

I have a friend who's a somatic practitioner for massage and he can watch you move and tell you what your trauma was.

Siobhan: 1:23:33

Ooh, I

Unknown: 1:23:33

want to meet him. He's really great, yeah, and he'll he was a physical therapist. Massage therapist works with the great guy to talk to, right? But I like, seriously, tell me, and he did. Well, you're the guy for me. I mean, like, I need your expertise,

Siobhan: 1:23:53

yeah, absolutely. How many different kind of off brand treatments have you tried? Because you love Reiki? Yeah, I was gonna say you mentioned the acupuncture,

Unknown: 1:24:05

North Beach chiropractic, Eric Rubin for Reiki, like he pulled out years ago, I was mugged and left for dead in Oakland. Oh my gosh, like, hit on the back of the head with a gun. For years, nobody could touch my neck. Wow. And it was gang initiation. It was back in the early and early knots. I went in for a chiropractic appointment, and he's sitting there, and he's like, You want me to get rid of this? I'm like, yeah. And he pulled out the energy 15 years ago, maybe more now, and you can touch my head.

Siobhan: 1:24:41

Here's a fun tie in Dr lundi stick, I believe is in that office. I believe she is too. She's been a guest on the podcast. Has she Yes, because she and I have worked together. She's helped me a lot. Yeah, that office, yeah is incredible. Margarita is yeah, one of the most talented body workers I've ever had the pleasure of having work done by Yeah. And she did some things with me that I have the chills now. Yeah, I do drink.

Unknown: 1:25:04

And some people are healers, yeah. So I do chiropractor, yeah, chiropractic massage, I guess. Have a budtender. If that counts, yeah, I believe it counts. I have a physical therapist. I have a psychologist, a psychiatrist, smart, an oncology neurology psychiatrist. I have mentors, chiropractic, a chiropractor, and they all do really good. Acupuncture is really great for neuropathy. TMJ, if you're grinding your teeth too much or just clenching your muscles too much, acupuncture, get rid of it. Yeah, a dietitian, a nutritionist,

Siobhan: 1:26:01

and that's all really expensive. Oh my god, it's so expensive. Yeah, that's what the one thing about, like trying to heal everything and doing all of the things right? Because I've been to a lot of the some of the same actually, is how expensive it is, right? And it's hard to get healthy, right?

Unknown: 1:26:18

And it's hard because there are a lot of groups for cancer that offer discounted or free stuff, right? But that's such a limited number, and trying to get in in a timely fashion is hard, right? Yeah, now I do. It's my understanding that Kaiser now offers acupuncture. Oh, nice. Medicaid programs offer acupuncture at times. You get so many, then you pay for it. Mm, hmm. There's community acupuncture project. So I use the Berkeley because it's, it's a sliding scale,

Siobhan: 1:26:51

yeah, that's helpful. If there's a school too. Sometimes you can get, you can go and be like, volunteer for the student hours. Yeah. And it helps someone practice. It helps you get treatments for really, really inexpensive well,

Unknown: 1:27:05

and also tell students or people who've just graduated what your disease is because they want to specialize. Oh, and they might give you a discount because they want to be an expert in cancer or diabetes

Siobhan: 1:27:16

or, yeah, become someone's kind of mentor through their study, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's a brilliant way to do that, too. It's really good, yeah, because then you're both getting helped, right? And when you have someone that's kind of new to it, they're going to do more research to learn about it. Yeah, they may help you with things and find things that you might not have. Yeah, and

Unknown: 1:27:35

like, when you're in chemo, heavy chemo, it's not the time to change your diet, and really you're limited by what stays in your body as to what you're going to eat. But it is not a time to become vegan. You need animal protein, right? If you eat something and you feel drastically better, keep eating it. Yeah, I'm like, Oh, I feel better when I eat fish, but I'm vegetarian now,

Siobhan: 1:28:00

no, right? Give your body what it's asking for,

Unknown: 1:28:03

and then once you're out of the medicine, go back to whatever diet it is that you prefer keto. It's great. Keto is really good for me because I can't have that much fiber. Fiber is unbelievably constipating. I can't I can't have it. It's worse than red meat, wow. And I miss because steak is steak, right? We have broccoli, cauliflower, beans, so many different flavors, right? I can't have them. Oh, I want them. Yeah, I pay the price when I eat them.

Siobhan: 1:28:35

But I do yeah. And sometimes it's worth it.

Unknown: 1:28:39

Sometimes it is, yeah, be wary with, you know, sushi and shellfish. You got to be wary of that,

Siobhan: 1:28:46

yeah, because you have to be careful of where you could pick up certain parasites, parasites, yeah, because they can be

Unknown: 1:28:54

and if you already have diarrhea, will you know if you had food poisoning, oh, and then that's a different infection. And then you got to be worried about that. About that, right? So you don't, you don't want to hurt your body any more than it's being hurt. Yeah, yeah. So that's get a cancer coach. And there's a lot of people that do it discounted, but you're gonna have to pay for, I mean, it's not cheap, right, but it will help you. Yeah, it's

Siobhan: 1:29:24

worth the investment, I would think, right? Because you're shepherding them through something that's overwhelming, and you're trying to wrap your brain around they're giving you weeks to months to possibly live, right? But there is a chance that if you do it, all right, they could be like you and have another decade. Yeah, more, looking at more.

Unknown: 1:29:41

I also have people that pay me to help their parents, because they don't live here. So I'll take the their parents to visits, right? And I'll take detailed notes, and then we'll relay stuff back to the kids so they don't have to feel guilty that they. Off to work, right?

Siobhan: 1:30:01

No, that's a great service, yeah, and it's you can't when you're when you're this ill, you can't go to the doctors by yourself, huh? Because you can't absorb all the things.

Unknown: 1:30:10

And how are you going to get there and get home? And emotionally, you can't absorb it. Even your caregiver can't absorb it, right? Because there's words that just trigger your imagination, and then off you go. Yeah, I

Siobhan: 1:30:26

used to ask if I could record my doctor's visit so I could listen to them, especially when we were talking about, like, getting ready for a surgery or big test or procedure or something like that, I'd be like, I'm gonna record this. Is that cool? Like, I just want to be able to listen to it again so I can figure out what I missed, yeah, or what I didn't ask, or what I didn't think of in the moment. Because now we're talking about how long I'll be down, what else I have to go through, like, what's the pretest? What's the pain going to be like after it or during it? Exactly? Because nerve testing is unbelievably painful, right? It's crazy painful,

Unknown: 1:30:59

and you can't come off that pain and drive yourself home. No, you need time, yeah, maybe you need a drink, and then you really shouldn't be driving

Siobhan: 1:31:09

home, yeah, because now you're on pain meds and a little booze, right? Which is not recommended. We all, not all, but a lot of people do it. What?

Unknown: 1:31:16

Pain meds and booze? Yeah, some of the best mixtures in the world. That's why people die, yeah, but

Siobhan: 1:31:24

yeah, but it's true. I mean, yeah, sometimes I used to think about a Vicodin. Used to feel like, just a warm hug,

Unknown: 1:31:31

like Vicodin and a beer, Yep, yeah. Don't do this at home.

Siobhan: 1:31:36

No, it's not recommended. But I do understand, like, yeah, you know, and I do under, like, it's hard to like, the fact that I'm not dead from all the drugs that I was on prescribed, and even taking under what I was prescribed, right? Is A Miracle, right? Like, and I'm always like, yeah, I don't know how that worked out, but

Unknown: 1:31:55

I'm just waiting for the dementia to set in. Oh, yeah. Like, and it might not eat the bacon. Yeah, because bacon and eggs will keep dementia away.

Siobhan: 1:32:04

Yeah, yeah. Red meat is really good for you. High protein, yeah, yeah.

Unknown: 1:32:08

But fat, your brain needs fat, yeah? And not just coconut fat, it wants dirty fat. Give me some dirty fat.

Siobhan: 1:32:17

I love it. Dirty fat. That's a good t shirt.

Unknown: 1:32:19

It's like bacon, yep, I used

Siobhan: 1:32:23

to have a dog named bacon because I'm, like, who doesn't love bacon, right? Like, and that will also keep any vegan person away from me.

Unknown: 1:32:31

And a maple sugar, I want somebody. So I was in this wine club at the Claremont hotel, okay? And we would, everybody had to bring two bottles of wine, and we would share with the bartenders, and we would share with the kitchen, nice, not until they were done, right? But they might have sent out all the bacon that didn't sell. Why isn't there a bacon dessert? A bacon sampler? I don't want chocolate. I want three slices of bacon and some scotch.

Siobhan: 1:32:58

That is a perfect dessert. Yeah, so I have had a chocolate maple, a brown sugar maple cupcake that has had bacon on it, and it was one of the best things I've ever put in my mind, yeah? And I should make one of those, right?

Unknown: 1:33:12

If somebody would make a shortbread cookie with bacon on top, like a strip,

Siobhan: 1:33:19

amen, yeah, you probably are just gonna inspire a lot of different desserts, yeah?

Unknown: 1:33:23

But maple, maple bacon, yeah, it is

Siobhan: 1:33:27

one of my favorite foods. I eat a lot of steak.

Unknown: 1:33:29

I do too, yeah, yeah. And my favorite thing that brunch is a bacon sampler as an appetizer or for dinner, I'll even order a steak as an appetizer, like thinly slice it over a bed of arugula or something. That's the appetizer, and then I'll get a steak for my dinner.

Siobhan: 1:33:47

Oh, we are so going to dinner. I one time went out for lunch and dinner with a friend, and I had steaks for both, right? And then he kept telling people, and I was like, Can you I? Can you just stop? It feels unnecessary. You're like, why? I'm like, Have you never had two steaks in one day? And he was like, No, never. And I was like, well, that is your fault. You're an adult, like you can make that happen.

Unknown: 1:34:07

How could you not have had meat or steak? Like you'd have a hamburger for lunch and a steak for dinner, right?

Siobhan: 1:34:14

He was just so enamored by the fact that I ordered steaks at both meals. And so

Unknown: 1:34:18

many girls don't eat when they go out on dates too, right? Yeah, it's like, no, I'm gonna eat. And if you're not gonna eat your food, I might

Siobhan: 1:34:25

eat the rest of your food. Yeah, I love food, so I'm right, gonna definitely partake. One of my girlfriends and I, we went out to lunch and we ordered like, half the side of a menu. But we're both in the industry also, so we love to taste stuff, right? And it was a Michelin rated restaurant, so we were like, Let's do it. And we were ordering, and the guy was like, Do you we were sitting at a table for two, and he's like, You should move over to this table for four. And then he's like, do you have someone else joining you? And we're like, no, it's just us, right?

Unknown: 1:34:54

And we're gonna just say, okay, and we want a red and a white

Siobhan: 1:34:57

wine, yeah? And we had, like, a two hour lunch. And ate a bunch of it and then took it all back to the guys we were working with. And right, we were like, try all this food. I'm like, you probably got a bunch of customers from us doing that. Then we have your food at our bar, like, and everybody's sampling it.

Unknown: 1:35:10

Oh, my God. If you want information to go around, invite your bartender or your server and give them the experience whatever it is you're selling, yep, they see more people in the neighborhood you're already in?

Siobhan: 1:35:22

Yeah, yeah. We go to one restaurant, and sometimes we have to be careful when there's two or more of us, because people will keep sending us drinks, right? And we'll just keep eating and drinking, right, right?

Unknown: 1:35:33

Thank God for Uber. Yes, very much. Thank God for Uber. Can we pause this bathroom all day long?

Siobhan: 1:35:40

Same I was just thinking, we can probably just wrap it up too, because we've been chatting for about 90 minutes. Yeah, yeah. Well, we can keep talking if you want to. I don't know what your schedule is. My schedule is open. I'm open now we can go get some food after this. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. I was thinking the same thing.

Unknown: 1:35:58

I was gonna think of something. Oh, one thing, because I did just take a bathroom break. I found because you're so worried about germs and people coming into your house and you have chemo, I got a scented hand soap so I know when people didn't wash their hands, and I would call them out on it. Oh, I'm like, You need to go back and wash your hands, or you need to leave that and, like, how do you know I'm, like, because it's cinnamon flavored, yeah, or cinnamon scented.

Siobhan: 1:36:29

So that is a brilliant little hack, yeah, where you don't have to ask everyone.

Unknown: 1:36:34

No, it's great, too. If you have children, did you wash your hands? No, oh, I learned it from a mom and children. Oh, like, That's brilliant, because I don't need your germs, right? Because you get so easily sick.

Siobhan: 1:36:49

Yeah, my dad had small cell lung cancer a couple years ago, and it was during covid. So at one point, my brother was like, You should come home. You know, things, right? We were just like, we don't know. And so I was flying home. I'm like, Well, I can't come home from being at the airport, like, I can't take a flight home and then be in the house with him, right? Because, like, I was so paranoid. And my mother's like, you know, just wear your mask, wash your hands, do all the things. And I'm like, but I still like, I'm like, don't, don't have him come to the airport to pick me up, like, I'll meet him at the house, like I'm home, I'll shower, I'll, you know, do all the things to kind of minimize as much as we could. Yeah? And he was like, I just want to see you. And I was like, Yeah, but I don't want to be the thing that kills you, right? Like, I can't, couldn't take that, like, and I had so many mixed emotions going home to do it. And then I was just like, Alright, fuck it. Like, if he's gonna die, anyways, yeah? Like, I was like, at least I'll have got to see him.

Unknown: 1:37:44

No, there's one thing I should mention. I was estranged from my family the whole time. My oldest brother put on Facebook before it was staged and granted, I'm just back from Europe. Pray for me. My sister has cancer, and put my phone number on Facebook. And so I woke up in the morning. I hadn't told my lover yet. He outed you. Oh, yeah. So then people that I don't know are calling me. I'm like, Who is this? How did you get my number? And then my friends are calling from all over the world, right? I'm like, and so I call him, I'm like, and we'd been estranged, not as drastically as we were about to be with my whole family, but I'm like, take it down. He's like, I'm not. I call my mom. I'm like, make him take it down. And she goes, Well, I can't, Sarah. I'm like, you won't, and he won't, and there'll be consequences for this. And mine was, you guys aren't going to help me heal. And then when you first get diagnosed, you have to sit down with yourself and with your partner and be quite honest about it, right? Because if they're not going to help you heal, they're going to make you sick like this is a zero sum game this and my family just said I will contact you again when I'm done with treatment. Then I was in treatment for 10 years, and honestly, I hate to say it, it's probably the number one reason I'm still alive. Wow, I didn't have any negative emotions. I didn't have to deal with anything that wasn't mine, right?

Siobhan: 1:39:29

You didn't have the stress of the relationships, of taking care of their feelings, right?

Unknown: 1:39:33

And it wasn't black and white. It took months, right? I did write like, if you want to be in my life, we have to talk about these issues, right? And we have to do it in a way that's good for both of us. So, you know, maybe therapy or a pastor, but if they're not going to help you heal, you don't need them in your life at that moment in time. And if they don't understand that, maybe you don't need them in that point in time ever again in your life, right? Because, if there's so many. Topic. They can't put your health first. They don't deserve you.

Siobhan: 1:40:04

Yeah, it's a hard thing to reckon with, though. Yeah, it's and that's a difficult sometimes the harder choice is the better one.

Unknown: 1:40:15

Usually the harder choice is the better Yeah, yeah, because my dad died during covid And then, so I mentioned brain surgery, right? So I had brain surgery on a Friday. I had chemo the next Friday, and when I was standing in line, my sister called and said, Mom's really sick. She's going to die. You got to come. And I'm thinking, I can't it's Friday. I can't fly before Monday, right? So I got in on Monday, and it was terrible, but it was like, you gotta wear the mask with them all the time. Yeah, they're sick. They're not feeling good. You need to have conversations. Can't understand you through the mask, right? That's it's hard, yeah. Like cancer is hard on so many levels,

Siobhan: 1:41:05

yeah, because it affects everything and everyone in your orbit, right?

Unknown: 1:41:09

And your brain's not right, right? And now, like being off chemo now for five months, my brain is coming back, and I think this is one of the hardest things. I thought my brain was pretty good, and then you're like, Oh my God, no wonder I made that decision. And I made that decision, because I made so many bad decisions, I'm still figuring out that I've made more bad decisions than I know about, right?

Siobhan: 1:41:32

Yeah, because you're also in the survival. So sometimes when you're in the survival, you're just getting through things

Unknown: 1:41:38

right, but you think you're thinking correctly, and that's one drawback of doing things alone, is nobody will tell you that you're not right. So part of having cameras at home is to is to watch me and what I do at night. Oh, interesting. Well, because, you know, you have to go the bathroom. Yeah, I only take Gabapentin at nighttime, okay? Because it makes me stupid. Yeah. And then I do an edible. So gabapentin, an edible. And then you're tired, yeah, it's just like, you get up, you go to the bathroom, and then you eat food. You're like, why am I not losing weight? Put the chocolate out?

Siobhan: 1:42:14

You're like, who made all that pasta at 3am right?

Unknown: 1:42:18

I'm not that bad yet, but if there's cold pasta in the fridge, I definitely

Siobhan: 1:42:23

eat it, right? Yeah, that's an interesting thing, though. I don't know if I would have thought to put cameras up to track what I'm doing at night, or to be able to track just myself and check in. Like, what am I doing with my time when I'm kind of well, because I

Unknown: 1:42:36

was like, is somebody breaking in? Like, I swear I put this here, right? And then, no, it was me, yeah.

Siobhan: 1:42:42

And you give yourself that you don't have to keep questioning it, right?

Unknown: 1:42:46

And you know where stuff is, because you're on camera and you're the

Siobhan: 1:42:51

only one with the access to it. So what harm does it do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a brilliant little hack for when you're doing things like that buyers, right?

Unknown: 1:42:59

You got to be careful that when people come into the house, you got to be like, Oh yes, there are cameras. This is why, right? But if you Well, when you're in chemo, you're not really getting it on. You don't have any of those problems to worry about chemo. I can't believe, right? And mine just stayed in house, like, Yeah, it did not go to the ring system, right? Yes to the Amazon Gods now, yeah,

Siobhan: 1:43:23

no, that's probably smart, yeah, he's been a closed circuit system. Yeah, it's

Unknown: 1:43:27

just cancer is hard, and he needs people to be like, Am I out of my mind with right? And you need him to be able to say, Yes, right?

Siobhan: 1:43:37

Well, yeah, cuz doing it on your own and not having anyone to kind of check you must be hard. But sometimes, even when you're doing it with people, if it's not the right people, they're not going to tell you either.

Unknown: 1:43:47

Oh, my God, I have a spreadsheet by my phone because I made the mistake of calling one friend that's all emotion for a practical matter. In that bit me in the butt and just like, oh, I that was bad advice. But then I called somebody that was really good with advice, right? With an emotional issue, and then we didn't talk for months, because if I had known that who I was calling, I wouldn't have asked that question, right? Like, there is no universal person, including your spouse. Is not your universal person, right?

Siobhan: 1:44:22

So you have a list next to your phone of who's good for what, yeah.

Unknown: 1:44:27

And now, since I no longer have a dial up phone or a landline, it's in my phone under contacts, first name, last name, emotional support, like, right? It's categorized,

Siobhan: 1:44:40

yeah, so you know you're not going to the wrong person for what you need. Yeah, it's smart.

Unknown: 1:44:45

Highly, highly recommend it. And there's a lot of good websites out there, like, manta cares, and it's basically like a map a metro system, like, all right, you just got diagnosed. This is what you're going to expect. This. Is what you're going to expect. This is where your medicine should be, your doctor's questions, and this is where you are. This is where you were. And you can go back and check, did I do all these things, right? And then go forward.

Siobhan: 1:45:12

That's nice, yeah, because it has to be so overwhelming that then how do you decide what to do next? Right?

Unknown: 1:45:19

And, yeah, yeah, because it's so easy to get lost, right? Well, like, did I miss a doctor's visit?

Siobhan: 1:45:25

Yeah? Or I didn't even know I needed to see that type of doctor, and

Unknown: 1:45:29

you have to stay on top of scheduling your own scans in your next appointments. The doctor's office are good at it, but they're overwhelmed, right?

Siobhan: 1:45:37

And, and if someone at the doctor's office is having a bad day and misses your name, right? Then they don't call you for three weeks, and you should have had a scan two weeks ago, right?

Unknown: 1:45:47

And you're your highest priority, right? You're not the doctors. Is not yours. You're not that to them, right? It's a full time job. It is a full time job.

Siobhan: 1:45:57

It really is, yeah, and that's in when you were saying earlier about making sure that your caregiver has two days off a week, Oh, yeah. Like, because it's not just your full time job, it is your caregivers full time job too.

Unknown: 1:46:10

Their imagination is your worst friend. Yeah? Because no matter what, even if you say it's not that bad, they're gonna go there, yeah, or the other way around. You're telling them it is that bad, and their mind won't let them go there, right?

Siobhan: 1:46:23

They're doing the denial, like, you're going to be fine. We're going to fix this. Everything will be great. You'll be healthy again. And you're like, No, no, no, this is right at this point, right now.

Unknown: 1:46:31

And then with your caregiver, especially if it is your spouse and your sexual partner, you got to have a bunch of sex, yeah, at the beginning. And just like, how are we going to deal with this? And you need to talk about that before you get brain fog,

Siobhan: 1:46:44

yeah, but like, if

Unknown: 1:46:48

you're going to have an affair, mine, I was like, if you need to have an affair, A, you better learn something so it benefits me. B, I don't want to see it, and I don't want an STD or anything from it, right? And I'd rather you have a girlfriend than a one off or hookers, right? Like, I don't you picking up a random stranger in a bar, right? Yeah, but you they have to get rid of that stress, because that sexual stress, and men need that more, right? Yep, they get stressed out, and they want more sex, but then they can't have it, and then they want even more sex, and it's just like it's a

Siobhan: 1:47:25

vicious cycle, right? And then they have brain fog from all they're thinking about is not having sex, right?

Unknown: 1:47:29

And they just need that sex to get rid of the stress. It's not necessarily about

Siobhan: 1:47:33

sex, right? It's about just getting rid of that energy, right? Or however they get

Unknown: 1:47:37

rid of it. It doesn't have to be an affair or but you know what? Sometimes they just need nurturing touch from another person, so maybe they get a massage. Yeah? And then you have to redefine intimacy, like, oh, we'll shower together. Let's do this instead. Let's Yeah,

Siobhan: 1:47:59

I'll wash your bald head, right?

Unknown: 1:48:01

I'll shave your head. Yeah. Oh, that's another thing. Most barbers, if you're in chemo, will give you a hot shave for free. Oh, or call and ask around, or they'll do it for a discounted price. Get a hot shave, right? They massage your head. It's warm. Even as for women, get a hot shave, right?

Siobhan: 1:48:20

Yeah, because we know from earlier, you don't want to pull the hair out.

Unknown: 1:48:24

You do not want to pull the hair out and Find pleasure where you can and get massages, even if it's just a foot massage, a reflexology,

Siobhan: 1:48:35

yeah, and I'm sure there's a lot of places that have discount or packages or schools, again, I come back to schools, yeah, go find a massage school, because those people want to learn, and you can get them for really inexpensive, right?

Unknown: 1:48:46

Stay out of hot tubs, yeah, steam rooms, maybe because the bacteria is really bad. Check everything with your oncologist first.

Siobhan: 1:48:53

Okay, yeah, I wouldn't think I mean hot tubs. I would know, because most times they tell you anything, stay out of a hot tub, right? But the Steam Room is an interesting

Unknown: 1:49:02

one, also, because bacteria and how are you going to do with the heat? Yeah, and the dry sauna, how are you going to do with the heat? Yeah, you might pass out, right? Especially, yeah, because you're probably a little dehydrated bathtub. How? When's the last time you washed it? What chemicals Did you wash the bathtub with? Like, rinse it, rinse it, rinse it, right? Oh, yeah, I wouldn't shower after you take a bath. Yeah? Like little things,

Siobhan: 1:49:28

you just have to go an extra step to help avoid any infection.

Unknown: 1:49:31

Or, yeah, your nails, you can't get your nails done because a fungal infection can be just as bad as your body as a bacterial infection, wow. Like you could get toe fungus and never go away. Like I have toe fungus on my nails because I lost all my nails and toenails. Oh, so now, when I take my socks off every other night, my toenail comes off, wow. And it's painful to have your toenail rip off and not the whole part. It leaves enough nails so it can have. Come tomorrow night. Oh, god,

Siobhan: 1:50:04

that's like the list of stuff that you deal with is just as overwhelming as trying to think of all the like, emotional stuff that

Unknown: 1:50:11

you're right and then you have to be positive to talk to people, because if you're too negative, nobody will talk to you. Yeah, rightfully so.

Siobhan: 1:50:19

Yeah. I mean, that's true in any part of life, but especially like you already have this cloud over you right now. You're miserable about it, and you get more isolated, yeah, and because, unfortunately, when anything bad happens to you, you have to take care of the people's feelings around you about it, right? That's why it can be so exhausting.

Unknown: 1:50:36

Oh, and it's like, why am I responsible for your and you know what? You finally get to a point where, like, No, you're you're an adult, right? Figure it out. Yeah, if we're not going to be friends, it's okay. We're not going to be friends,

Siobhan: 1:50:47

it's fine, yeah? Like, if you can't handle this, yeah, maybe I'll see you when I see you.

Unknown: 1:50:51

It hurts, though, when, yeah, like, one friend, I was asking him for rides, like, I might need a ride to doctor here or there. And literally, I could just see him pushing himself away in physically trying to get away from me, and that was just hard, because they removed themselves from you, right? So how do you let him back in? And why should you? Yeah, I mean, there's probably 100 reasons why you should, but there's obvious when you ask somebody for something when you really needed it in the couldn't because of an emotional reason, right? It's like, I don't have time for that.

Siobhan: 1:51:35

Yeah, that's I have a hard time asking people for things, and the reason is that right there, right is, because if they can't meet me there, then I know it's gonna forever change the way I think about them. And if I really care about them, then I don't want to, right, ask them for anything, because you don't want them to I don't want to ruin it. Yeah, so I'm like, it's easier to just take care of it by myself then.

Unknown: 1:51:56

But then, are those people worth having in your lives? If you already know they're not going to be there. Maybe it's time for them to go away, yeah? But then maybe that's what makes them become a better friend, right?

Siobhan: 1:52:07

Or it's and it's robbing them of the opportunity to show you that you're wrong, yeah, like that, they just step up and be like, Oh, I got you, no problem. And it's so then it's almost like you're not being a full friend to them, because you're not even giving them the chance to step up. You're just assuming that they won't. It's like a mental gymnastics I go through a lot right where I'm just like, and then I'm like, I just, I'll just forget it. I'll just like, stay by myself.

Unknown: 1:52:33

Because how many of your friends or family can you say I love this person because they're flawed? Like, I don't want perfect people in my life. I don't want to date a man that hasn't lost something and rebuilt it, yeah, I don't. I don't want friends that haven't, that don't have resilience. Yeah. I mean, it could be a divorce. Could be loss of a parent your job, yeah?

Siobhan: 1:52:58

Something a big toe. Yeah. I need you to have had some kind of adversity for me to actually really deeply connect with you. Yeah, because if you haven't, then you don't actually understand where I'm coming from, because I've had so much adversity, and I am still smiling and finding my joy. And like, looking to other people to like, how did you get through it? Like, let's talk about it. Like it was terrible, right? And like, especially in your case, like, you really thought you were gonna die, but you didn't, yeah, you know, I have a shirt that says, but did you die? And like, because, like, the worst shit that ever happens to you is the worst shit, but right tomorrow it could be worse, or it could be, like, it's bad, but it's not terrible.

Unknown: 1:53:36

Dying is easy, rebuilding is hard,

Siobhan: 1:53:41

yeah, and I don't think we talk about that enough as a society, addicts.

Unknown: 1:53:46

And how many addicts are there? Really? Oh, so many, 75% of people, you know, yeah, honestly, if we're honest about it, or people that overcame homelessness, yeah, nobody talks about it. And why not? That is something to be proud about, yeah, overcoming addiction, yep, something to be proud about,

Siobhan: 1:54:07

yeah, but we look at it still with such a stigma and right, other than it's not like we've all been there, right? Yeah, most people have been on some spectrum of it, right, like in AA, they'll talk about your bottom and your rock bottom doesn't always have to be like, you can have a high rock bottom, yeah, you don't always have to go from like business to homeless, right? You can go from like business to divorce or something like, yeah, bottom was just higher than someone else's, right? But it doesn't mean it wasn't your bottom right? And there's like, a stigma. But I'm like, if you've touched the bottom at any level, right? And come back from it. Like, that's fucking

Unknown: 1:54:42

huge, right? Or you're in the process of coming back from right, like, because

Siobhan: 1:54:47

the coming back from it process is hard and right, lonely, and sometimes it feels like it's easier to go back into it, yeah, because that's where your comfort level is, right? And being uncomfortable is uncomfortable, right? And it sucks. Well, like, I throw a

Unknown: 1:54:59

lot of dinner parties. Days, and I always have wine and drinks, but if you come to my dinner party in your in active recovery, and you don't tell me, I'm gonna be so mad at you, right? Because why would I put you in harm's way? And do you think that little of me? So that's just opposite of what we were talking about. Like, no, if, like, you would tell me if you had a shellfish allergy, like, Hey, I'm not drinking anymore. Can we not have alcohol on the table, right? No problem. Yep. Or respect

Siobhan: 1:55:29

that, or be like, I'm not drinking if someone else is, I don't mind, but I don't want to be offered it, right? Like, offer me coffee or water, right? But not wine,

Unknown: 1:55:37

yeah, let me know. Have special drink for you at your place, like we can make it pretty Yep, yeah. You don't have to drink,

Siobhan: 1:55:46

yeah and, or smoke or do anything yeah and, we still want you to come sit at our table.

Unknown: 1:55:53

So like in my house, I don't necessarily, I won't share my edibles, because those are medicine. It is not a recreational drug, right? I do keep butt around for people who smoke, but edibles like No, those are mine. That's your Yeah, and don't ask anybody for their medicine. Can I try this? Can I try that? No, you can't,

Siobhan: 1:56:13

right? Yeah, cuz you find

Unknown: 1:56:15

something to you, which I never do,

Siobhan: 1:56:19

but like that, if someone did right,

Unknown: 1:56:21

like in my support group, what medicine are you on? Is it working? Why Right? Or why didn't it? But you don't ask them for their drugs, no.

Siobhan: 1:56:33

And the fact that that's even a conversation you have to have with people, right, is like how kind of fucked up. The whole society is about all of it, right? Like, Oh well, I'm gonna ask them if I can take some of this or that. Like, why do you think that you should have the right to ask me for something that's trying to help save my life? Right?

Unknown: 1:56:52

You know, what was one thing that speaking of drugs. So I had a really hard time when my mom died, because, I mean, my dad had died, so much stuff didn't get resolved from my childhood, and my parents taught us to compete with each other, and it made for a horrible because we're seven years age, different, like there's no way we can compete with each other, no, and we have all different talents. So I asked, I've been curious about mushrooms my whole cancer journey, so I've talked to every oncologist, and be like, Can I do mushrooms on the meds I'm on, right? And they all stop. Like, this one guy was an old hippie, this oncologist. I'm like, I haven't asked you a question in the hallway. I'm like, it's a quick question. And he looks at me, he's an old hippie. I'm like, Can I do shrooms? And he looked at me, and his whole face lit up and said, Fuck yeah, everybody in chemo should do shrooms. So am I neurologist, head of Stanford? Should I do mushrooms? He goes, we've seen some good things because they're starting to study it, right? And then I mentioned I had the psychologist, oncology neurologist. And he goes, would you document it? I'm like, yeah. So basically, for me, the very low was at the bottom of a staircase, right? And I would only do micro dosing, yep. And it was like, going up one step, and your perspective is changed that little bit. But what is it at sea, for every foot you go up, you get 1000 feet of extra vision, yes, or something like this. And it's the same with mushrooms. Have they done it? I've never tripped trips. Okay. I'm curious about it, but I'm still hesitant, because if the chemo gave me brain fog, is it going to interact and that, and I'd want to do it with a guide. And I don't know if I could trust in my friends not to see me tripping and then decide they want to do it too, right? And then just abandon me, like for that, you really, I think you're especially your first time. Yeah, you need a guide.

Siobhan: 1:58:59

Yeah, I have, I've been my big fan of micro dosing, and I think it has completely helped heal some of the neural pathways in my brain, but also that the nerve pain in my body, and I have done like, slightly more than a micro dose. Well, I'll sit and think about everything healing and think about it, and I really think it has helped a ton. I have done one big macro dose with a friend, and it was very strange, and a couple times during it, I was like, why am I here with him? We're in the woods at this house. And then I'd have to be like, no, he's safe, like he's a gold star gay. This is why we're here sitting with me. Like there was, like, some ups and downs on it, because I was so afraid of tripping from growing up, and then they'd be like, Oh, you're gonna go crazy, right? You're gonna jump out a window. And, like, if you've had any trauma, it's gonna you'll have a bad trip, right? And I didn't have a bad trip. I had. It was great, and I learned a lot about myself, and, like, it really healed a bunch of myself. And then. I asked, actually, this year, did my first Ayahuasca ceremonies. I want to try this. I'm so curious. And I was, it was a two day ceremony. So you go up in the first night, you have a ceremony, and then in the morning, you kind of talk about it and share, and then that night you do another one, and then the next morning is the same you share. And then, and it was, I've never cried so hard in my entire life. Was it a good cry? It was such a good cry like it was like all of the tears that I've been shoving down into my gut for the last 20 years coming out, but in a way that didn't feel scary or overwhelming. It just felt like releasing it all.

Unknown: 2:00:38

So when you were on your opiates, did you cry with the back pain in your sometimes, but not a lot? I haven't cried in 10 years.

Siobhan: 2:00:46

Yeah, it kind of numbed you out so you don't, like, I could remember being in so much pain and like, starting to cry and then just sucking

Unknown: 2:00:53

it all but we can't. It's not like, even a conscious effort. Yeah, yeah. I feel weepy, but I can't cry. Yeah, and you'd never get that release, yeah. So you

Siobhan: 2:01:04

got it, yeah? I did very much. So in it, I happened to go on a weekend that was an all women's which would not have been my first choice, okay, because I just find that to be too much and too much female energy, yeah, makes me uncomfortable, and women sometimes have been kind of the people that have hurt me even more than men, yeah, because the emotional is way more worse than the physical. So I was kind of hesitant to do an all women's weekends, and I but it was like the only time that it worked. And then I was really happy that I did okay, because the energy was very much. It was different to not have the male energy there, right? But it was cathartic. And overwhelming, and I want to do it again, okay? And I was, it was a beautifully led ceremony, like I just it really healed a whole bunch of people. I think there was maybe 15 or 20 circle, three different guides. Okay, yeah. So there was the woman that was running it, and then two women, no five guides. There was a woman that was running the ceremony, and then there was a woman that was helping two women that were playing music with her through the whole thing. And then they had two sitters, so that sitters would come over, and anytime, like they thought they saw you struggling or you needed something, they were there to help guide you. So if you had to go into the bathroom and you were kind of unsteady on your feet, or you were really throwing up, or anything like that, they would come and sit with you. Sometimes they would just one of them came over to me at one point when I just could almost not breathe from crying, from sobbing, and she just came and held me, and I just cried in her arms for like maybe 15 or 20 minutes, and then I kind of got myself together, and I laid back down on my little spot in my bed, and she went off to help someone else. So was it worth the

Unknown: 2:02:46

price you paid? The financial cost, but the emotional cost too?

Siobhan: 2:02:53

Yeah, it was, yeah, I would say it was, yeah, interesting, yeah. I mean, I have found that there's other places I could go for less expensive, and there are communities here, especially in the bag, that you can go to find places there are, I have a bunch of friends that just went to Peru, and so I'm waiting to hear about that. One of them went for the first time. One of them went for like, the 14th time. Yeah, he'll guide people through it now, and so I definitely want to do that eventually, too, but I would definitely do it again, and I definitely want to do it where it's Yeah. I think it is totally worth it. And I think the healing that it did for me was, I don't know how I would have gotten that in that timeframe, right? I don't think therapy, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think that like, it would have been years of talk therapy to do something that in a weekend my body and my soul was able to do by itself. Fascinating, yeah, I am. I love. I've done a lot of therapy. I've read a lot of self help books. I've talked to so many people like, I have been through almost every kind of physical practitioner that you can see. Yeah. Like, I joke that if I'm an expert in anything, it's 10,000 hours on a table, right? Because of all my stuff and I it fundamentally changed the way I move through the world.

Unknown: 2:04:19

Now, what about people saying, well, if you want to do it again, it's addictive, so then it's not really good.

Siobhan: 2:04:26

I don't think it's that I want to do it again, because I went in with such apprehension that I don't know if I got the full experience, because I was trying to control it too much, right? I was still very much worried about how I looked, crying in front of all those other people, and no one was paying attention to me, right? So I still have some of that that goes on like I always am, like, feeling slightly like I'm always thinking about how I'm being perceived, which is a trauma response, and it's from things that happen growing up and being in communities where, like, you have to act like this to get this right, where everything was very conditional. And so. Always slightly thinking of that as opposed to just being relaxed and being myself, yeah, and so I know that that was playing a role in that weekend. And I think if I could kind of even step further away from that, I would get even more insight and healing. Yeah, there's a few times I have to get up and move my body, because the pain in my body was, I can't lay here, right? And then it was like, well, am I allowed to get up, like they want you to stay on your mat, but like, I need to move my body, or I need to go stretch, and can I do that? Or am I taking away from someone else's experience? Right? Like, I'm such a caregiver that I wanted to keep helping the woman next to me who was having a hard time, and I keep reminding myself to, like, not get in her journey, to stay in mine, right? So there's, like, that kind of anxiety about it that I think this next time I did, it wouldn't be there, right? And the first time jitters would be gone. So what could that experience be like on that level? So saying I want to do it one more time isn't saying I want to go do it every week, right? I want to go and see it one more time. And what was that experience? Okay? And then after that, if I wanted to do it more, I think it's not something that you kind of run out and do any Friday night, right? I think you do need to, like, I prepared for it. I They gave you dietary suggestions and I didn't. I fasted for two days before because I was so afraid of just shitting my pants, right, right? It's like, I was, like, it's fine if I throw up, like, I can throw up almost anywhere, like, Be discreet about it, but like, shitting my pants, or, like, you know, being in the bathroom having GI issues is, like, my worst nightmare. Oh, my God, could you imagine that tripping? Right? That's what I mean. So like, for me, I was like, I'd rather fast for two days to help eliminate that issue. Yeah, and it did help a lot with that. Yeah. So I think to do it right, and to do it like, what the medicine is meant for. I don't think it's like, it's not a party drug, no, yeah, it's not. And it helped with some of the like, I was drinking a little too much and doing a little too much of the fun stuff, and not, right? You know, being careful about, like, what I was doing and where I was going. And I think it helped curb some of that, yeah, just it was a really profound experience that I wish more people could experience. I wish the barrier to entry wasn't so high, yeah. Like, I was very well aware that I was sitting in a room with almost exclusively wealthy white women, right? And as a white woman who's not wealthy, like, I was like, oh, like, this is, you know, this isn't the way I had wanted to experience it. I wanted to do it more with someone of the indigenous right culture and relation. And the woman I went to has studied with indigenous culture. She has permission, she has a relationship with a family down in Peru, and so she is kind of very connected to it, yeah. But I was like, it still feels a little whitewashed for me, right? And so I was, well, kind of aware of that. So I would have liked to have that kind of, I want to do another experience where it is more of the traditional yeah means, right? But I want that Yeah, but I'm happy that I got to experience it, because it's not something everyone can get into or has the finances for.

Unknown: 2:08:00

Well, one thing I noticed, and I've heard this from many people, even microdosing shrooms, you get off sugar, oh yeah, including alcohol, which is sugar, yeah,

Siobhan: 2:08:11

oh yeah. I would now much rather microdose than drink, yeah, and I'm a bartender, like, we drink for a living, right? You know? I mean, not all of us, but Right, yeah, you know? And sometimes I'll be on microdose at work, and then I don't feel the need to have a cocktail, right? You don't even want it. It's so weird, yeah, and I think that, like the Ibogaine that they're doing research on now, that gets people off of addiction in one treatment, they

Unknown: 2:08:35

just wait. That's the one that rock and roll stars have been doing for heroin for

Siobhan: 2:08:42

50 years. Yep, yeah, that you do have to go mostly other places to do it, right? Mexico, yeah. And the problem with the US is that all of these things, there's so much research on it, but they still say there's not enough, right? And the other problem is that all of this gets you off of pharmaceuticals, yep. And pharmaceutical companies don't want that. No, that's why they the only reason marijuana or weed is not legal federally is because of the pharmaceutical companies, right?

Unknown: 2:09:10

Isn't that crazy? Yeah, because think about, I think Colorado in the first year. Don't quote me on the numbers, but it was $41 million in the first quarter from marijuana, yeah, and that's not touching pharmaceuticals, right,

Siobhan: 2:09:28

yeah, but the pharmaceuticals company know, the more people that use cannabis to right, the less they'll use pharmaceuticals. And the problem with cannabis is you can grow up pretty easy. It's a weed well, also so 150

Unknown: 2:09:41

plus years ago, they found that inside your body is an indo cannabinoid system that supercharges your immune system.

Siobhan: 2:09:51

Yep, yeah, that's why most donors don't get sick a lot. Yeah, and people don't put that together, right? Like, if you know someone that's a huge Stoner. Ask him how many times they're sick a year, right?

Unknown: 2:10:01

I had a great complimentary medicine. Doctor, there's another word. It begins with an I can't think of it. He's like, I've been in the Bay Area forever. Hematologist, oncologist, he goes and he was 80 plus years old. He's like, I have been smoking pot for 60 years, and I don't know anybody who has lung cancer from smoking pot. He did use the caveat, it wasn't this crazy marijuana we have now, right?

Siobhan: 2:10:32

Well, and it's been flour instead of, like, the oils and stuff, right?

Unknown: 2:10:35

That do not do the oils do not do dabs, flow, smoke the flower, yeah. Well, like dabs. I've had so many friends lose their mind on dabs.

Siobhan: 2:10:44

Well, dabs are, dabs are, like, an expert level of smoking, right? And they do, should not do dabs. No, no, I used to do a dab and then I would write a standard operating procedure manual and be fine. So that's good, but like, like, that's not if you have any sort of psychosis, yeah, depression, yeah, bipolar. Do not do them. You will not come back. Yeah, you have to be aware that that is a possibility, and you don't want to come back, right? And sometimes indicas can help set off depression, yeah, so if you're already towards a depressive state, or you can tend towards depression, or even just heavy sadness, yeah, if you smoke a lot of indicas, they can set that off, and they can make you feel worse, right?

Unknown: 2:11:24

And if you're just taking a drag or an edible every 10 minutes, every 15 minutes, you have a problem, right?

Siobhan: 2:11:32

Yeah, yeah, you should. My grandma used to always tell me that you should have your vices and your vices shouldn't have you, right? And I think that that's a great way to look at it, like have your vices, but be aware of what. Aware of what they are, yeah, when you use them, and how often. Yeah, because otherwise you're an addict, yep, and you're in active addiction, yeah, if you can't control your vice.

Unknown: 2:11:51

And if you think about, oh, I want a glass of wine, do you have to pour it? Or, do you think, yeah, that would be nice, but I don't want

Siobhan: 2:11:58

it today, right? Or maybe later, yeah, like, or, yeah. Or is it just now you thought of it and you can't do anything but go

Unknown: 2:12:05

have it, right? It's like that third cup of coffee. Do you really need it? Or do you just, do you want to decaf because you like the flavor, right?

Siobhan: 2:12:12

Yeah, you just need the warmth, or whatever else. God, wouldn't it be great

Unknown: 2:12:15

if they made really good non alcoholic whiskey so you could have that flavor and that burn without getting the drunk or the damage that liquor causes on your body?

Siobhan: 2:12:25

Yeah, they're coming out with a lot of new stuff that people are are enjoying, of the non alcoholic spirits, yeah, but not a good whiskey yet, or scotch, I don't Yeah, I was gonna say I haven't seen any good whiskeys yet. I've tried a couple of vodkas that are decent, right?

Unknown: 2:12:40

And some gin is decent, but you have the flavor, the flavor, the botanicals, for gin is easy because it's so flowery, or, yeah, you know it can be.

Siobhan: 2:12:48

And sometimes I'm like, why would you if you're like, to me, who likes the flavor of alcohol? Well, some people love the bird. They do. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, Sarah, I could talk to you all day. I know. How long have we been talking? Probably almost two hours. Oh, just over two hours. Yeah, yeah. So let's go get some food, since we talked about it so much, this is fabulous. And then maybe we'll have you come back again, give us updates and talk to us more in time. Give us more pointers and how to start thriving, right?

Unknown: 2:13:18

And not just cancer, any major long term chronic illness and pain,

Siobhan: 2:13:22

yeah, well, that's the thing is, I, we were sitting down, and I was like, you know, how will, how relatable will it be? Because I, you know, having, you've gotten a diagnosis in a sentence that not everybody gets, and then you've gotten this kind of bonus life, you know, where you they told you you would be dead in in three weeks to six weeks to Okay, well, we can extend it a little more, and now you're 11 years out.

Unknown: 2:13:49

So here's the weirdest thing, and maybe this is a good place and a hook for next time. Yeah, I realized through this I never wanted to live or needed to live, yeah, because you get so used to the moment,

Siobhan: 2:14:08

wow, yeah, that is a great place to pick up another conversation, because that is a

Unknown: 2:14:15

I never needed to. I never wanted to. My problem is I didn't want to live. Wow, because you push it out of your mind, it's not possible. So why would you want something that's not possible?

Siobhan: 2:14:27

And then now you have the overwhelming choices of, now that you're living, what do you do? Right?

Unknown: 2:14:33

It's like, I never wanted to live the lottery. And dammit, here I am, like, what am I going to do with these millions? Because it causes more problems than it solves.

Siobhan: 2:14:41

Oh yeah, because if you're gonna be dead in six months, might as well spend it all rack up a bill like go.

Unknown: 2:14:47

But now, am I gonna have frivolous relationships? Am I gonna lose meaning in my life and my purpose? Because I don't have to have that intensity, right? But that's another

Siobhan: 2:14:59

give up the intensity. Okay, I don't want to, right? Well, that's but as just a human, it's kind of we do. Yeah, all right, well, now we have to have you back so we can have that whole conversation.

Unknown: 2:15:10

It was my play Word.

Siobhan: 2:15:13

All right, y'all thank you all for listening. You can find Sarah canop at living before dying.com. And then I will link it all into the show notes too. Okay, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing. Yes, thank you all for listening. Yeah, thank you all and make sure you go find some joy today. Yeah, you.